Veil fans, what's gives?!

Eshta

Eshta

New member
Help me folks!

I've been set a challenge by a friend: to choreograph a flamenco inspired/ flamenco fusion/flamenco influenced to an Alabina song (Lolai habibi ya aini) for 3 dancers...using veil fans! Nothing like a good challenge to get the brain juices flowing :shok:! The flamenco bit, I'm on it. Lots of good online resources and a number of flamenco dance colleagues I can draw on. The veil fans...:think:!

So, given that as a forum we can either piece together everything, or at least have a damn good argument, I am beseeching you to braindump all your veil fan knowledge on me!

First of all, when and how did they arrive on the belly dance scene? My first experience was Razia performing with them in the UK maybe a year ago, which made me think they have come via the US route, which made a lot of sense to me. Anyone know anything more? I know they originate in Chinese(?) dance, but it's the crossover I'm intrigued by.

Possibly will be answered as part of the above, but they seem to be more popular on the tribal and fusion fronts? That is based on a purely subjective sample (ie, I searched on youtube :lol:)

Now as they are presumably a relatively new prop so there will be few dancers with lots of experience, I'm conscious that a lot of what I'm seeing online isn't great. There is a lot of wafting and fluttering, but very little good dancing WITH the prop (as opposed to being led around by the prop). Do you think that this means it is the PROP that is limiting/limited, or is it just that the dancers are still quite 'green' with it?

Next question: music choice. The music choices I've seen so far has been quite slow, wafty and predominantly fusion or western. Similar to above, is this due to the prop limitations, or just people's imaginations? If anyone knows any good, more upbeat versions, would they be so kind as to point me in their direction?

Finally, do you think my little 'project' is completely insane?! Please elaborate :lol:

Thanking you ladies and gents!
 
alosha

alosha

New member
My understanding is that it possibly started as a replacement for fire with fusion dancers. But, this could be totally wrong. Since I make them, (shameless plug ;)) I really should know this FOR SURE, huh? I see some research this weekend. :think:

So as far as the what and the how, the best performances I have seen have used the fans closed and open, with dramatic effect to the "popping" open of the fan. So you think they're starting with a streamer of sort.

And of course now I can't find the video...
 
Sita

Sita

New member
Eshta said:
Help me folks!

I've been set a challenge by a friend: to choreograph a flamenco inspired/ flamenco fusion/flamenco influenced to an Alabina song (Lolai habibi ya aini) for 3 dancers...using veil fans! Nothing like a good challenge to get the brain juices flowing :shok:! The flamenco bit, I'm on it. Lots of good online resources and a number of flamenco dance colleagues I can draw on. The veil fans...:think:!

So, given that as a forum we can either piece together everything, or at least have a damn good argument, I am beseeching you to braindump all your veil fan knowledge on me!

First of all, when and how did they arrive on the belly dance scene? My first experience was Razia performing with them in the UK maybe a year ago, which made me think they have come via the US route, which made a lot of sense to me. Anyone know anything more? I know they originate in Chinese(?) dance, but it's the crossover I'm intrigued by.

Possibly will be answered as part of the above, but they seem to be more popular on the tribal and fusion fronts? That is based on a purely subjective sample (ie, I searched on youtube :lol:)

Now as they are presumably a relatively new prop so there will be few dancers with lots of experience, I'm conscious that a lot of what I'm seeing online isn't great. There is a lot of wafting and fluttering, but very little good dancing WITH the prop (as opposed to being led around by the prop). Do you think that this means it is the PROP that is limiting/limited, or is it just that the dancers are still quite 'green' with it?

Next question: music choice. The music choices I've seen so far has been quite slow, wafty and predominantly fusion or western. Similar to above, is this due to the prop limitations, or just people's imaginations? If anyone knows any good, more upbeat versions, would they be so kind as to point me in their direction?

Finally, do you think my little 'project' is completely insane?! Please elaborate :lol:

Thanking you ladies and gents!
Click to expand...
Amaya did something like this (fusioning the fan veils with a spanish feel):

personally I think the prop takes over.

Well, apart from spatial concerns. I think you biggest issue is balancing the earthness and fire of the music and flamenco with the airy veils. Then again that's what makes it interesting.

Does each dancer HAVE to use a veil fan?, it might be easier if you experimented with just two having it in the background while the other danced a solo or something like that. It might be easier to use the prop like a normal fan at first and then really focus on the prop in the second part. It will add an WOW factor at the end where you want it but also let the choreography shine on it's own. A bit longer than Yallar does and with attitude - I do think that move when she wraps it round herself and maintains the veil shape works really well.

Sita
 
Eshta

Eshta

New member
Sita, that's a really useful clip, thanks! I do think the prop has a tendency to take over in some places but some lovely ideas there nonetheless. I like how she ditches it, in particular!

The entrance has to be with 2 dancers as the 3rd is dancing a solo prior to it (with feather fans - total propfest!) and then comes back on part way through to form the 3rd person. But I am contemplating shedding the fans part way through, at least for one dancer!

Thank goodness it's single fans only...!
 
Eshta

Eshta

New member
That's exactly the problem I'm finding. I think they look prettiest open and fairly flat or they kinda get themselves tangled...
 
perizade

perizade

New member
I recently watched Titanya Dahlin do a veil fan dance. Two fans. Very beautiful- I like the use of double fans. I would keep them flat, and they can get stuck if you open and close them. Have you heard of veil poi? I want those so badly!!!

ETA I think making the veil fans shorter might be a good idea- less twisting.
 
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alosha

alosha

New member
The shorter the veil, the less twisting is a really good point.

The single veil used in the clip is most likely a 3 yard veil, which is quite a bit to handle. The shorter 36" veil fans are less likely to twist, and easier to manage. Then there's a 72" which is middle-of-the-road..

I haven't tried out one that is shorter than 36"...

These are my sizes, but I'm sure they're pretty universal...
 
perizade

perizade

New member
Also, with two fans you can give a very nice Chinese feel to the dance. The audience loved Titanya's performance. She did a rocking dance to some version of Carmen, I'll have to ask her. But I would say that two fans are better than one. Also, consider height. Titanya is really tall, but when I was playing with the veils in the dance studio I realized I was way too short for them. I'm only five feet. I would perhaps get solid color ones so they are easier to chop, or spring to have them custom made so they are dyed just so. They are usually hand dyed anyway, so it probably wouldn't be a problem. My guess-

Hold your arms out horizontally. If the veils are draping on the floor, they are too long. If they are just touching the floor or shorter, you're good. That's my guess. But if you have to have your arms up the whole dance to avoid tripping or twisting, it's not gonna work.
 
PoleDanceABCs

PoleDanceABCs

New member
Yeah, it will be a cool challenge to mix flamenco and veil fans. You gonna post a vid after you perform? Huh huh huh? :p

I like the idea of two dancers with the fans and one person doing a solo. And then people switching off. Eventually you would have to put down the fans anyways, right?
 
Eshta

Eshta

New member
Thank you for your ideas and inspirations!

Great news, it's choreographed and looks pretty incredible actually!

I'll see if we can videotape it in the future...!
 
R

raks amira

New member
amaya's fan

I love the fan veils. We pick them up at Rakksah west two yrs ago, changed our Ziroq choreography we lerned for Amaya 4 yrs ago. Its the bestest hit themn we do the little festivals in the area.
 
Eshta

Eshta

New member
Would you believe I'm on a second veil fan choreo after the first one? It's one of the most messed up things I think I've ever done in terms of 'authenticity' but I'm planning on dancing it at Saqarah to an audience who knows me well and knows enough about belly dance to not get too confused, and have carefully constructed the words to introduce it!

It's a Golden Era inspired veil fan performance to a Latino piece, "Besame mucho"...:shok::dance:

(*Eshta runs for cover and hides from the belly dance police!*)
 
Eshta

Eshta

New member
Thanks Alosha, d'ya think you can hold them until 12th September? I'll have to go to ground until then, but that's the Big Day!!

Y'know I keep practicing it and then giggling to myself at the insanity of the combo! I've titled it "Eshta's Flight of Fantasy", which is the most accurate title I can give it!!
 
R

raks amira

New member
good luck

Good luck, I know you'll be a hit! I have started working on a new choer as well. We start off wilth a 3 yd veil and pull out the fan veil. Its going to be wonderful. the muisc is an old peice spanish (Ahoy) off of B- tribe it so cool.
 
Bellydance Oz

Bellydance Oz

Member
As a former flamenco dancer, I have to say these veil fans make me cringe. I have no problem with people using them in Asian-inspired choreography but the thought of using them in a flamenco-based piece...:(

I suppose it's all "unauthentic" anyway so what does it matter? It's just that if you knew how to use a fan in flamenco - constantly being opened and closed, both gently and sharply, twirled, flicked and swept around the body, you'd realise that the fan inside a veil fan is completely emasculated. All it does is provide the frame to spread the veil. It's not a fan any more.
 
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