What do you charge?

[Moondancer]

Hey everyone,
I've just started a student performance troupe at my university. We perform at many events in my city, especially student balls/formals/fundraising events, etc. Until now we've been VERY generous and have mostly peformed for free. But we no longer want to be exploited. :naghty: I was wondering how the professionals among you go about charging. How much do you ask for? Does the size of the group influence the rate? I.e. do you ask for more if more people perform? And do you charge by the hour?
Thanks for your help!

 

[Aisha Azar]

Rates

Hey everyone,
I've just started a student performance troupe at my university. We perform at many events in my city, especially student balls/formals/fundraising events, etc. Until now we've been VERY generous and have mostly peformed for free. But we no longer want to be exploited. :naghty: I was wondering how the professionals among you go about charging. How much do you ask for? Does the size of the group influence the rate? I.e. do you ask for more if more people perform? And do you charge by the hour?
Thanks for your help!

Dear Moondancer,
This is really difficult to say because often rates depend on where you live. A person who is dancing in New York City can generally charge a lot more than a person dancing in Spokane, Washington. The size of the group and the number of dances SHOULD both affect the rate that you charge. We also adjust rates as to what kind of venue we are going to be performing in. We can charge a lot more for a show at a private college than we can for a show at a community center or a restaurant.
However, a student performing group might be VERY different than a professional dance company. This next statement might make me pretty unpopular, but the fact is that you might not really be ready to charge professional prices if you are not producing professional quality performances, which students are usually not ready to do except in the most controlled circumstances. In which case you really need to wait to perform in anything but student venues until you ARE all ready.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[Samira_dncr]

I agree with A'isha, but assuming your student troupe has reached a level of proficiency that is worthy of pay, I'd check out what other professionals in your area are charging.

 

[Moondancer]

Thanks for your reply Aisha!
I realize that we can't charge as much as a professional who's been dancing all her life but I think we do deserve some payment because we always put on a good performance and work really hard in preparation for it. Some of us (including me) have been dancing for many years so it's not like we're a group of amateurs standing there wiggling our hips. May I ask how much you charge for, say, a performance of two or three dances in a group at a public place like a restaurant? Just so I can get a rough idea what professionals get paid. I just want some kind of guideline so I know that I'm not asking for way too much or too little.

Thanks!

 

[Moondancer]

That's a great idea, Samira, thank you!

 

[Aisha Azar]

Dance etc.

Thanks for your reply Aisha!
I realize that we can't charge as much as a professional who's been dancing all her life but I think we do deserve some payment because we always put on a good performance and work really hard in preparation for it. Some of us (including me) have been dancing for many years so it's not like we're a group of amateurs standing there wiggling our hips. May I ask how much you charge for, say, a performance of two or three dances in a group at a public place like a restaurant? Just so I can get a rough idea what professionals get paid. I just want some kind of guideline so I know that I'm not asking for way too much or too little.

Thanks!

Dear Moondancer,
Usually in restaurants and clubs, dancers get paid WAY less than they do in other types of venues, like colleges, corporate events, etc. In my area, and in Seattle the last time I danced in a club there the wage is probably about $35 per dancer, plus whatever tips they would collect. This is for about a 25 minute routine.
These days, my dance company dances in a restaurant for all of our twice annual events. I have it set up completely differently so that we are in charge of our money and pay the owner a reasonable rental fee and she makes the majority of her money for the show from serving food and drinks. We keep what we make on the reservation prices and we are usually able to pay all of our dancers plus make some money ourselves. We take the risk and the profits for our restaurant shows now. When I approached the owner with my plan, she was totally open to it and I think we are both very happy about the arrangement. We do two professional shows a year there and 3-4 Hafla type student nights in an upstairs venue in the restaurant to give ourselves some privacy.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[Samira_dncr]

Samira Shuruk (not me, another Samira) has an excellent website addressing these concerns. She also has a page of standard rates that are charged across the country.

Samira Shuruk: Standard Rates and Guidelines

If you get to the bottom of that page, there is a link to the rates guide. This ought to answer many of your questions and give you some idea of where to start. You may not feel you deserve to be paid what a well-established professional gets paid, but if you don't charge the standard rates, you are undercutting...which serves nobody. If you don't feel comfortable charging standard rates then you need to wait to jump into the professional pool. I am not saying that to be mean, just to preserve the work that others who have gone before you have done.

Much love--Samira Tu'Ala

 

[Moondancer]

That's exactly what I was looking for! Thanks, Samira!

 

[Samira_dncr]

That's exactly what I was looking for! Thanks, Samira!

Glad I could help! :dance:

 

[Mya]

*snip* if you don't charge the standard rates, you are undercutting...which serves nobody. If you don't feel comfortable charging standard rates then you need to wait to jump into the professional pool. I am not saying that to be mean, just to preserve the work that others who have gone before you have done.

Just out of curiosity, what if the standard rate has been set by one company who you feel quite certain is over charging clients for performances? IF you disagree with that rate of pay and find it exploitative, is it still unfair to charge less??

 

[kayshier]

Just out of curiosity, what if the standard rate has been set by one company who you feel quite certain is over charging clients for performances? IF you disagree with that rate of pay and find it exploitative, is it still unfair to charge less??

me personally, i'd charge the same price or more..
i would NEVER undercut another dancer no matter what my personal opinion of what they charge is, lest i be accused of doing just that deliberately undercutting
to me artistic expression should be well compensated.

 

[Mya]

i believe in being fairly compensated for what you do, but don't you think that there is a point where it becomes absurd? would you charge $200 US to have a girl in wings parade up an aisle in isis wings and flourish about for a minute and a half and find it just?

I can't say that i would charge that just because i know that the other company does and for the sake of not undercutting. It simply seems wrong. If i don't think that a performance is worth that price i'm not going to cut a client's throat to keep a standard that i believe to be a farce.

 

[kayshier]

i believe in being fairly compensated for what you do, but don't you think that there is a point where it becomes absurd? would you charge $200 US to have a girl in wings parade up an aisle in isis wings and flourish about for a minute and a half and find it just?

I can't say that i would charge that just because i know that the other company does and for the sake of not undercutting. It simply seems wrong. If i don't think that a performance is worth that price i'm not going to cut a client's throat to keep a standard that i believe to be a farce.

i'd charge the same why?
because sensible people will see that what you is a whole lot more than what the other person does for the same price...
eventually you will get more work because you are worth more.

i'd forget about others really and focus on myself and how i can make what I do valuable for the money that i charge.

 

[Aisha Azar]

Prices

i believe in being fairly compensated for what you do, but don't you think that there is a point where it becomes absurd? would you charge $200 US to have a girl in wings parade up an aisle in isis wings and flourish about for a minute and a half and find it just?

I can't say that i would charge that just because i know that the other company does and for the sake of not undercutting. It simply seems wrong. If i don't think that a performance is worth that price i'm not going to cut a client's throat to keep a standard that i believe to be a farce.

Dear Mya,
I feel that there is a time to look around and see if prices are compatible with what is going on in the community. Sometimes there are dancers who really are WAY too proud of their work if you judge by what they charge. Also, if there are only a few dancers in an area, then there really is not set price yet. If you feel that someone is charging too much and do not want to do so, maybe you can scout out what the average price is for entertainment that is similar to your's in your area and charge an average price as opposed to way higher or lower.
A women called me from a local community college, to hire my dance company, and told me that people were quoting her a price of over $1200 for a 40 minute show for 5 dancers. That seemed a little steep to me considering the venue. If it was Bill Gates or The Donald, then that would be another matter.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[kayshier]

Dear Mya,
I feel that there is a time to look around and see if prices are compatible with what is going on in the community. Sometimes there are dancers who really are WAY too proud of their work if you judge by what they charge. Also, if there are only a few dancers in an area, then there really is not set price yet. If you feel that someone is charging too much and do not want to do so, maybe you can scout out what the average price is for entertainment that is similar to your's in your area and charge an average price as opposed to way higher or lower.
A women called me from a local community college, to hire my dance company, and told me that people were quoting her a price of over $1200 for a 40 minute show for 5 dancers. That seemed a little steep to me considering the venue. If it was Bill Gates or The Donald, then that would be another matter.
Regards,
A'isha

Aisha
there isn't really a lot to choose from in terms of bellydance where we are from. (most of it is underground) there is one main company...so obviously they would set the standard as to the cost of public performances
in terms of entertainment on the whole most promoters here tend to encourage the underpaying and the undercutting, which is why i was telling mya that i would not charge lower than the going rate, because it will be perceived as undercutting...people would gladly pay cheaply for entertainment, and of course not considering the expense of costuming, make up, traveling to and from the venue etc.

in my opinion if i think someone is charging too much money for 5 mins and doing some half-a**ed dancing, that should not influence what I charge..especially if i know that i could put out a whole lot more (hypothetically speaking of course)

 

[Samira_dncr]

i believe in being fairly compensated for what you do, but don't you think that there is a point where it becomes absurd? would you charge $200 US to have a girl in wings parade up an aisle in isis wings and flourish about for a minute and a half and find it just?

I can't say that i would charge that just because i know that the other company does and for the sake of not undercutting. It simply seems wrong. If i don't think that a performance is worth that price i'm not going to cut a client's throat to keep a standard that i believe to be a farce.

I'm paying an Elvis impersonator $500 to hang out and smile at people for an hour and sing a whopping 2 songs. And, truthfully, he's doing me a favor because most of the impersonators I talked to charged upwards of $1200 for the hour I was requesting. :lol:

So, um, no...I think $200 is a bargain. LOL.

I do think that you should take a look around at other professions that are similar. A professional bellydancer has to make her entire living wage in a few mere hours on the weekned. It's not like you can do bellydancing 40 hours a week, 9am-5pm. I've often heard dancers say they won't even put on eyelashes for less than $200. And truthfully, I don't blame them.

 

[Amira_116]

I think that you should charge a fair price, rather than 'whatever the market will bear'. Overcharging is as bad for the perception of dancers in the marketplace as undercharging or lack of professionalism.

I'm a professional events coordinator - I own an entertainment company, and calling someone in your area in that line of work might be a good way to get a feel for what's appropriate. But keep in mind events people usually get top dollar for their performers, so you might want to charge less. Make sure you specify you're a student troupe.

Pro dancers can charge a lot more, but keep it reasonable if you want to continue to get work.

And yes, larger troupes should get larger money, but you'll need to specify how many/how much at the time time you set up your job. Don't ever tell someone you have more dancers and will need more money!

One thing you can try for now is ask your potential customer what they have in their budget, then decide if that's worth getting dressed for.

If you have any specific questions, just holler. I may be able to help you come up with a worksheet to use for customer quotes.

Good luck!

Jana "Amira"
Essence of Egypt Dance School & Enchantment Unlimited Entertainment
Learn How To Belly Dance with belly dance classes, belly dance videos and belly dance DVD's

 

[Moondancer]

I think that you should charge a fair price, rather than 'whatever the market will bear'. Overcharging is as bad for the perception of dancers in the marketplace as undercharging or lack of professionalism.

I'm a professional events coordinator - I own an entertainment company, and calling someone in your area in that line of work might be a good way to get a feel for what's appropriate. But keep in mind events people usually get top dollar for their performers, so you might want to charge less. Make sure you specify you're a student troupe.

Pro dancers can charge a lot more, but keep it reasonable if you want to continue to get work.

And yes, larger troupes should get larger money, but you'll need to specify how many/how much at the time time you set up your job. Don't ever tell someone you have more dancers and will need more money!

One thing you can try for now is ask your potential customer what they have in their budget, then decide if that's worth getting dressed for.

If you have any specific questions, just holler. I may be able to help you come up with a worksheet to use for customer quotes.

Good luck!

Jana "Amira"
Essence of Egypt Dance School & Enchantment Unlimited Entertainment
Learn How To Belly Dance with belly dance classes, belly dance videos and belly dance DVD's

Excellent advice, thank you!
Love your website, btw! I was totally like you when I started dancing. Except that I was extremely stick skinny instead of overweight.

Best wishes

 

[mickeyxena]

I agree with MYA

The companies charge ridicolously high prices here, and to be honest the standards here is not amazing as dancers overseas.
And like Mya says, they charge 200 USD to just parade around. I undercut when i feel that the prices are ridiculous, my conscious doesnt allow me to cut client's throats. I know bellydancers are rare here, but that doesnt mean we should overcharge so much. If you want bellydance to grow, you must have reasonable prices.

And i go with my mind, i believe in giving the best, but i won't work for peanuts as well. And also please charge by your standards of dancing. If you know you are not too good, don't hype the prices.

 

[Amulya]

Samira Shuruk (not me, another Samira) has an excellent website addressing these concerns. She also has a page of standard rates that are charged across the country.

Samira Shuruk: Standard Rates and Guidelines

If you get to the bottom of that page, there is a link to the rates guide. This ought to answer many of your questions and give you some idea of where to start. You may not feel you deserve to be paid what a well-established professional gets paid, but if you don't charge the standard rates, you are undercutting...which serves nobody. If you don't feel comfortable charging standard rates then you need to wait to jump into the professional pool. I am not saying that to be mean, just to preserve the work that others who have gone before you have done.

Much love--Samira Tu'Ala

The link is no longer available. I thought it was a great idea she put that together, wonder what happened to it :think: