What is your first impression about Muslims or Arabs ?

[kayshier]

And in all you said Khanjar you missed one vital point.

we must all be respectful of each other. That seems to be a quality that is missing in a lot of threads in this forum of late..

I am neither muslim, or arab, and i find this thread to be very insulting....but i suppose as a small islander who only recently got electricity, wears grass skirts all day and swings in vines from coconut tree to coconut tree, i'd have a better understanding of how offended arabs in this forum would feel..

 

[khanjar]

Kayshier, I see the problem as communication, there is an obvious tension in the world, perhaps here we can all do well to learn to understand each other and for us personally, dispel some of that tension.

Respect, well, I think it is here, but is not communicated well, something which is a problem with any communication in text form.

I don't believe anyone actually set out to hurt anyone, I believe people are better than that, what has failed is communication.

How can we become better, if we don't talk ?

 

[Kharmine]

I see that, Awasef. I know tone is hard to hear, in an online conversation, but this one is screaming condescension at me.

This is Dipali's thread. People are responding to it with honest and thoughtful answers based on their experiences. These experiences and insights may not please you, but they are not meant to be offensive.

Da Sage and the rest of us who have posted here are not doing it to annoy you. Why not try to give her, and the rest of us, the benefit of the doubt that we are well-meaning people with different life experiences than yours?

 

[da Sage]

Now where did THAT come from? Gypsy did it, oh, I see! If gypsy jumped off a bridge, does that mean you'd have to do it too?

It is quite clear that gypsy does not want to take part in this discussion, so perhaps you should just get off gypsy's case already!

I thought perhaps you and summerdance were friends, and you'd already posted in this thread. But I wasn't particularly offended by your suggestion that I avoid your posts, I was more confused by your assumption that I would want to (when I had just contacted you saying that I enjoy your posts).

I was suggesting that since you didn't seem to think it was rude to suggest that someone avoid reading posts that might upset them, I thought it would be acceptable to say pretty much the same thing to summerdance. I am implying that I am no more or less presumptuous than you, gypsy.

And as we both know, I'm pretty damn presumptuous.

 

[da Sage]

And in all you said Khanjar you missed one vital point.

we must all be respectful of each other. That seems to be a quality that is missing in a lot of threads in this forum of late..

I am neither muslim, or arab, and i find this thread to be very insulting....but i suppose as a small islander who only recently got electricity, wears grass skirts all day and swings in vines from coconut tree to coconut tree, i'd have a better understanding of how offended arabs in this forum would feel..

See, here I thought it was the Hawaiians who wore the grass skirts...

Kayshier, what would you like us to know about your country and your culture?

 

[kayshier]

Kayshier, I see the problem as communication, there is an obvious tension in the world, perhaps here we can all do well to learn to understand each other and for us personally, dispel some of that tension.

Respect, well, I think it is here, but is not communicated well, something which is a problem with any communication in text form.

I don't believe anyone actually set out to hurt anyone, I believe people are better than that, what has failed is communication.

How can we become better, if we don't talk ?

this whole thread is an exercise in miscommunication
i'd do something with dipali's first post to illustrate the point, but i don't think i have the energy to do so...just yet.

 

[Kharmine]

And in all you said Khanjar you missed one vital point.

we must all be respectful of each other. That seems to be a quality that is missing in a lot of threads in this forum of late..

I am neither muslim, or arab, and i find this thread to be very insulting....but i suppose as a small islander who only recently got electricity, wears grass skirts all day and swings in vines from coconut tree to coconut tree, i'd have a better understanding of how offended arabs in this forum would feel..

Why is sharing our experiences of how we were brought up and learned about cultures and a religion different from our own offensive to you? Yes, we had misconceptions and naive ideas and wrong ideas. We learned better and we're still learning, that's all we're saying.

Did you not, ever, have misconceptions about those from far-off lands and following different faiths?

It is Dipali's thread, and we're responding to it honestly.

Let the first one who never had a wrong, ridiculous, biased, naive idea about Westerners and non-Muslims be the first to cast a stone.

 

[kayshier]

See, here I thought it was the Hawaiians who wore the grass skirts...

Kayshier, what would you like us to know about your country and your culture?

I don't think now is the forum for something like this, maybe when the appropriate forum comes up, i'd be happy to oblige.

 

[masrawy]

honestly the moderators should just lock and delete this thread.

that's my say.

thank you.

Well, She is just one of them ... the offenders.

 

[da Sage]

I'm just terribly contrary today, but I don't think that this thread should be deleted. I don't think it is shameful to have had wrong or incomplete ideas in the past, or to have relatives that have wrong ideas. It's embarrassing, but the past is something that we can't control. And show me the person who can control their relatives! We can only work towards learning more, listening, and showing our relatives a different point of view.

Dipali wrote about what he was taught. I submit that it's not his fault he was taught that way. It's not even his fault if he believed it, as a child. I also don't think talking about what happened is wrong.

 

[kayshier]

Why is sharing our experiences of how we were brought up and learned about cultures and a religion different from our own offensive to you? Yes, we had misconceptions and naive ideas and wrong ideas. We learned better and we're still learning, that's all we're saying.

Did you not, ever, have misconceptions about those from far-off lands and following different faiths?

It is Dipali's thread, and we're responding to it honestly.

Let the first one who never had a wrong, ridiculous, biased, naive idea about Westerners and non-Muslims be the first to cast a stone.

Actually where I come from we aren't that insular...the school curriculum from the primary level has social studies and at secondary level social and physical geography, where we learned about different cultures...

we are also fortunate to have a muslim population in trinidad, so for those of us so inclined it is very easy for us to learn about islam, even if we are not muslim. We also have hindus, several denominations of christians, bahai's, sikh's..in my country

I for one come from a home where I have always been taught to question..when people make statements and have opinions, critcially anaylse what they say..I for example would not castigate all white americans, as insular red necked racists who wear white hoods at night, looking for next black person to lynch..and plant a burning cross in front of their house...

i think whether or not it is dipali's thread is irrelevant...the ownership of the thread is not in question, its the way this thread is communicated. and in defending it such as it is, suggests a high handed position that reeks of arrogance..it does not encourage healthy discourse...only further muddying the feelings of good will that we should be engendering among each other..

what is the point of the honest discourse in this thread? to vent? to say that we now know better??

this thread actually reminds me of a website...
Black People Love Us!

but yeah...I am not going to cast any stones, I don't pretend to be holier than thou..I just can't stay silent while seeing obvious offense.

 

[kayshier]

I'm just terribly contrary today, but I don't think that this thread should be deleted. I don't think it is shameful to have had wrong or incomplete ideas in the past, or to have relatives that have wrong ideas. It's embarrassing, but the past is something that we can't control. And show me the person who can control their relatives! We can only work towards learning more, listening, and showing our relatives a different point of view.

Dipali wrote about what he was taught. I submit that it's not his fault he was taught that way. It's not even his fault if he believed it, as a child. I also don't think talking about what happened is wrong.

I understand what you are saying here...but perhaps there is a more sensitive way of approaching this? I don't know, but i'm just suggesting.

If we are to have discussions where the intent is to learn or to dispel ill concived notions, surely there must be a more tactful way of doing so?

 

[kayshier]

Well, She is just one of them ... the offenders.

enlighten me please?

now i understand...(My brain must be tired from a long day)

 

[Kharmine]

Kayshier, the point about this being Dipali's thread is that there seems to be outrage over the fact that we Westerners have the gall to discuss Arab cultures and our experiences in first learning about them and about Islam.

What, we needed permission to do so? We were supposed to not say anything about our experiences that, while honest, seem offensive or insensitive to others? Even if we worded our posts as carefully as we knew how to do, and stressed that we're trying to learn better if we had misconceptions in the past?

Not everyone of us here grew up like you did. That's the point.

Every culture, every country, every body of believers, every community has people with education and exposure to "foreigners" and yet they still have misconceptions about foreign cultures, beliefs and such. It happens for various reasons.

The only thing we're defending is our right to tell what our experiences were, how we've learned and are still learning, what we used to think and what we are thinking today. Dipali asked, and that was pretty brave of him.

How is the fact we responded honestly and thoughtfully arrogant? How is that insensitive?

 

[Dev]

Moderators warning

I just got home and saw the thread . I will answer everyone and will explain to all why I have statred this thread . But my time will come later, its time for moderating.

No abusive posts, Gisela and I will remove any posts that violate the forum rules. I see the first moderator warning does not appear to have been taken seriously, please no more point scoring and abuse.

Regards to you all.
Dev

 

[kayshier]

Kayshier, the point about this being Dipali's thread is that there seems to be outrage over the fact that we Westerners have the gall to discuss Arab cultures and our experiences in first learning about them and about Islam.

What, we needed permission to do so? We were supposed to not say anything about our experiences that, while honest, seem offensive or insensitive to others? Even if we worded our posts as carefully as we knew how to do, and stressed that we're trying to learn better if we had misconceptions in the past?

Not everyone of us here grew up like you did. That's the point.

Every culture, every country, every body of believers, every community has people with education and exposure to "foreigners" and yet they still have misconceptions about foreign cultures, beliefs and such. It happens for various reasons.

The only thing we're defending is our right to tell what our experiences were, how we've learned and are still learning, what we used to think and what we are thinking today. Dipali asked, and that was pretty brave of him.

How is the fact we responded honestly and thoughtfully arrogant? How is that insensitive?

the responses were insenstive as far as i can tell....they might have been honest experiences but this is like talking about a group of people as though they are some sort of alf (alien life form)

what I said was arrogant was the continued defense of this position in light of opposing views shared...there seems to be some lack of understanding. or an unwillingness to understand

 

[kayshier]

I just got home and saw the thread . I will answer everyone and will explain to all why I have statred this thread . But my time will come later, its time for moderating.

No abusive posts, Gisela and I will remove any posts that violate the forum rules. I see the first moderator warning does not appear to have been taken seriously, please no more point scoring and abuse.

Regards to you all.
Dev

the abuse started from the first post in this thread, in my humble opinion.
do you to think that this thread would not have generated the kind of replies that it has?

 

[Awasef]

I just got home and saw the thread . I will answer everyone and will explain to all why I have statred this thread . But my time will come later, its time for moderating.

No abusive posts, Gisela and I will remove any posts that violate the forum rules. I see the first moderator warning does not appear to have been taken seriously, please no more point scoring and abuse.

Regards to you all.
Dev

An apology would be more relevant than whatever your explanation might be for starting this thread.

If you are going to remove any posts, you should start with your own.

 

[Awasef]

the responses were insenstive as far as i can tell....they might have been honest experiences but this is like talking about a group of people as though they are some sort of alf (alien life form)

what I said was arrogant was the continued defense of this position in light of opposing views shared...there seems to be some lack of understanding. or an unwillingness to understand

Thank you for persisting with logic in the face of empty and childish arguments.

 

[da Sage]

I just got home and saw the thread . I will answer everyone and will explain to all why I have statred this thread . But my time will come later, its time for moderating.

No abusive posts, Gisela and I will remove any posts that violate the forum rules. I see the first moderator warning does not appear to have been taken seriously, please no more point scoring and abuse.

Regards to you all.
Dev

Sorry Dev, I will try to behave.:naghty: Although I don't think I scored many points, I will refrain from asking for a chance to tie.