What is your first impression about Muslims or Arabs ?

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khanjar

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There is a problem in the west, when discussing any ethnic minority, if something, and it can be anything is mentioned, or becomes the subject of discussion and someone of that ethnic minority and in some cases people of the discussing group's own ethnicity in the slightest disagrees, they can cry racism. When this word is screamed out, all discussion stops. Now reasons for a cry of racism could be simply down to the incorrect word being used, or an incorrect presumption based upon poor education or experience. The fact that the concerns of ethnic minorities are being discussed, automatically shows a concern, people are trying, they are doing their best. The majority of the west does not want all this misunderstanding, we are largely an amicable people, we want to learn, we want to get on and see past any difference, but when cries of racism are used to silence another, everything is lost, meaningful conversation stops, those concerned walk away shell shocked wondering what the hell happened, and the result of it all, is no one learns.

The same is happening here, someone uses an incorrect word, or a word that is insensitive to another, or even an understanding based upon their education and calls of insensitivity are cried (to remember much of our education was given to us by others and they were subject to education by others etc Perhaps even the education handed down is a case of the game of 'Chinese Whispers', it changes slightly as it is handed on, 'danse du ventre' for example, incorrect education, yet many still believe it). The result of cries of insensitivity bordering on racism stops any meaningful conversation and we are left with the understanding that no matter how hard we try, it is not going to work.

All of us have to learn to understand others, forgive any little error of speech and gently explain the more sensitive approach, only then, can we get somewhere and heal these rifts that seperate us all.
 

summerdance

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the responses were insensitive as far as i can tell....they might have been honest experiences but this is like talking about a group of people as though they are some sort of alf (alien life form)

what I said was arrogant was the continued defense of this position in light of opposing views shared...there seems to be some lack of understanding. or an unwillingness to understand

This is the point I've been trying to make all along! It's fine to discuss. This is a discussion forum, after all.

What I have been reading is disrespect masked as curiosity. I would obviously appreciate genuine interest in the my religion and culture, but this felt so condescending to me.

BTW, just because Gypsy suggested something , in a completely different situation, I am automatically expected to agree with/like it?

I cannot even understand what you mean any more.

kayshier- :clap::clap:
 

masrawy

New member
Speak first think later .. delete the post has been my experience with Mr. D, I personally will not delete what I stated the thread should stay as a testament to bigotry at work. I am being kind to not violate so-called the forum rules and being threatened with the red button delete the post if you don't agree with.
 
Maybe you should recuse yourself for moderating this thread it's the right thing to do. I doubt you do the right thing any way :rolleyes:
 

summerdance

New member
Actually, I'm reminded of when gypsy told me that I might want to set up the ignore button so that I didn't have to see her posts anymore. I hadn't complained about her making posts, but she saw fit to suggest that I not read her posts anyway. So I am doing exactly what gypsy did, so can you be mad at both of us the same?

This happened to you and Gypsy, however long ago. It has nothing to do with me. Why would I even get involved? Do you think, because we're both Arabic, that we think/are the same?
You seem upset about me (and other people like me) discussing what we think about Arabs, but it doesn't make sense to expect us not to, when most of us enjoy dance from your part of the world. If we showed no interest in the culture, you could legitimately be angry at us for taking your art and ignoring the rest. We can't win.


You may discuss to your hearts' content. It is the way you discuss. Do you really need to be arrogant, condescending, patronizing in your discussion? Could you attempt to be tactful, respectful and sensitive in your discussion? Did you forget/not care that Arabs would read your words? Patting yourself on the back for outgrowing your old, racists views was too much fun, huh? I should be happy to see how far along you've come, huh?

I am pretty sure there are other "outsiders" here who would like to discuss Arab culture, but are afraid to because they will offend somebody.

I have occasionally stayed away from threads on this forum and others that I thought would annoy me. I occasionally skip newspaper articles that I should read, because I know they will upset me. I am sorry I offended you by suggesting that you might want to do what I sometimes do.

Would you prefer that I not address you at all? I think maybe that is what you want.

I would never consider telling you what to do. I am happy to have discussions with people. I can not, however, tolerate disrespect, no matter how thinly veiled.
 

khanjar

New member
Ok, let's get this out then, how do those of the Arab culture view those of the west, what are they doing wrong ?

I want to know, in case I am falling down somewhere.
 

da Sage

New member
I would never consider telling you what to do. I am happy to have discussions with people. I can not, however, tolerate disrespect, no matter how thinly veiled.

Is there anything in particular that you would like to discuss with me?
 
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Farasha Hanem

New member
i had to put up with fighting adults growing up---do i have to put up with it here?

I read this thread for the first time this evening, and I want to say, I've had it---enough is enough.

When I first joined this forum, which was not so long ago (April 2007 under the username OkieRose), I absolutely loved it. Everyone was friendly and helpful, and I've grown to love so many here. I had found what I considered to be my online bellydance "home." But lately, there have been too many explosions in different threads across the forum. I don't know understand what's happened; I know in a large community like this, there are going to be disagreements every now and then, but this is ridiculous. I'm so very upset. I don't understand why a community of adults are all of a sudden finding it hard to get along with one another.

All of this fighting is hurting me so badly. I don't want to be here anymore. :(

I'm sorry, Salome.
 

Kharmine

New member
Kayshier, I'm not trying to be difficult, but how we are supposed to come to any understanding about our present realities if we are so terribly politically correct that we can't even admit to our past realities?

Just because people are honest about what they experienced and about what they once thought or believed -- no matter how disturbing they may seem now -- doesn't mean that they necessarily hold those misconceptions currently. Dig?

And if they still say things that don't sound quite right, if they also seem like good people how about giving them the benefit of the doubt instead of being quick to judge?

Let's be honest, for many communities on this planet, a group of people from a far different culture or country is like an alien life form. (I don't know about you but I'm a sci-fi fan and the thought of meeting an alien life form is pretty interesting!)

Not necessarily a scary or repulsive alien form, mind you -- just unknown, different and sometimes rather strange. Maybe even beautiful. With time, a little good humor and a willingness to give even "odd" folks the benefit of the doubt, we can all learn from each other.

There are a very few but very unreasonable people being Very Offended on this thread who have made it all too obvious that they are not themselves free from prejudices, fears, myths, misconceptions and bias about cultures different than their own.

I don't remember the exact Koranic verse, but I know there is a version in it of "He who is without sin should cast the first stone." They should reflect on it. :pray:
 

Kharmine

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All of this fighting is hurting me so badly. I don't want to be here anymore. :(

I'm sorry, Salome.

Unfortunately, a very few but very unreasonable people are attempting to drive away as many people as they can who don't think like them. They have an agenda and because they don't play as fair as Salome, they can get pretty nasty.

Hopefully, you can come back when these people get bored and move on.
 

Kharmine

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Ok, let's get this out then, how do those of the Arab culture view those of the west, what are they doing wrong ?

I want to know, in case I am falling down somewhere.

The Very Offended people batting back at any attempt to make peace aren't the people to ask, Khanjar. They're like Taliban as opposed to reasonable and sane Muslims.
 

khanjar

New member
Still, if they have the same goal as me, that being to understand each other and dissolve many of the barriers that exist between us of the west and those of the middle east, they should answer the question.

I would like to know where I might be offending when it is my intention not to, so I may learn and modify my approach.

I will back down if I get an honest answer, as it is better to back down educated than step up uneducated.
 

da Sage

New member
Still, if they have the same goal as me, that being to understand each other and dissolve many of the barriers that exist between us of the west and those of the middle east, they should answer the question.

I would like to know where I might be offending when it is my intention not to, so I may learn and modify my approach.

I will back down if I get an honest answer, as it is better to back down educated than step up uneducated.

Hi Khanjar,

Will it help if I explain that my opinions are worse than yours because I am American and you are from the UK? If you read CS Lewis it's OK, if I do it is insulting orientalist fantasy. I've spoken up for the wrong people, and dared to argue with the (other) wrong people, and now I'm in the doghouse. So I'm an arrogant imperialist !@#$, and you're in the clear. Make sense?
 

Dev

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This is a subject for me which is close to my heart, because I am fed up with defending Muslims to my family and other “Hindu” friends and vice versa. I come from a country which is highly divided in this matter. There are Hindus who would like to see every Muslim leave the country immediately, are no different to the Tali ban , I am sure you are aware of the Hindu - Muslim conflicts in India. My parents like other millions of parents in India lived their life with an attitude towards the Muslim, they are not violent people just a bit mislead .

For a second lets turn the topic around, Ask a British person what their first impression of Indians or ask the Australian what they think about the aboriginal people. I could have included all those if it was not a belly dance forum . Don't you think I am aware of people who think Indians stink like curry , or “they always p*** me off trying to sell something on the phone“ “what about the Indians in UAE, the ones who build all the giant skyscrapers , what does the Emirates think about them, They are not on top of the list of friendship exactly , are they ? The joke about the Indian accent is highly amusing subject among westerners. Because thats how they see Indians.


We all have attitude towards each other, if you pretend you don't , well good for you.


No apology from me for speaking the truth . I might be way off being politically correct this time but thats fine.


and finally I am going to answer all of you just give me some time please.


My moderator warning includes myself too, I have moderated my own posts several times. I usually leave a note. If this topic or my posts have violated any rule of this forum, you are welcome to notify Salome. She moderates the moderators.


Thanks
 

da Sage

New member
The Very Offended people batting back at any attempt to make peace aren't the people to ask, Khanjar. They're like Taliban as opposed to reasonable and sane Muslims.

I was going to make a joke, but I think it would go over like a lead balloon.

I'll just say that comparing the people chatting on this thread to the Taliban is taking it too far. The Taliban didn't get where they are by talking.
 

Kharmine

New member
Still, if they have the same goal as me, that being to understand each other and dissolve many of the barriers that exist between us of the west and those of the middle east, they should answer the question.

I would like to know where I might be offending when it is my intention not to, so I may learn and modify my approach.

I will back down if I get an honest answer, as it is better to back down educated than step up uneducated.

Unfortunately, the people making the most trouble here do not have the same goal as you, khanjar.
 

da Sage

New member
I read this thread for the first time this evening, and I want to say, I've had it---enough is enough.

When I first joined this forum, which was not so long ago (April 2007 under the username OkieRose), I absolutely loved it. Everyone was friendly and helpful, and I've grown to love so many here. I had found what I considered to be my online bellydance "home." But lately, there have been too many explosions in different threads across the forum. I don't know understand what's happened; I know in a large community like this, there are going to be disagreements every now and then, but this is ridiculous. I'm so very upset. I don't understand why a community of adults are all of a sudden finding it hard to get along with one another.

All of this fighting is hurting me so badly. I don't want to be here anymore. :(

I'm sorry, Salome.

Farasha, please don't be upset. I wish all my friends liked each other, but they don't. I hope you will continue to visit here and be friends with everyone. You have a very kind heart, and I hope you can forgive me when I am prickly. I didn't mean to make you sad.:(
 

masrawy

New member
Khanjar you may have walked into this as innocent bystander .. the premise of the thread is to give a platform to spew hate toward Arabs and Muslims as if they are alien from different planet or germs you can't have in your kitchen or one entity or nationality.

Unfortunately, there is repeated offenders here ... we have been through this in the Jews thread, the Gaza thread and others. This one is just payback time.

Once again, if we reverse everything here and replace it with Jews instead of Muslims .. think about it :think: how many will object

I guess there is such thing Jews Taliban too they are here ..
 

Kharmine

New member
I was going to make a joke, but I think it would go over like a lead balloon.

I'll just say that comparing the people chatting on this thread to the Taliban is taking it too far. The Taliban didn't get where they are by talking.

I wouldn't call this chatting. That would imply mutual respect and courtesy and a willingness to give people who disagree with one the benefit of the doubt. You and I are chatting. The people who are trying to make peace and broaden understanding are chatting.

Agree fully with khanjar on everything he's said here, and I applaud you for trying to bridge the miscommunication/understanding gap. But we should either ignore the trolls or urge Salome to ban 'em as being repeat offenders of the forum rules.

'Cause people who continually pick fights, post incendiary threads having nothing to do with the forum's subject (but object to threads they don't like), post gratuitously insulting messages and blow off hands extended in friendship do not believe in chatting. If they ain't Taliban, they are trolls.
 
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da Sage

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Khanjar you may have walked into this as innocent bystander .. the premise of the thread is to give a platform to spew hate toward Arabs and Muslims as if they are alien from different planet or germs you can't have in your kitchen or one entity or nationality.

I respectfully disagree. I thought the original purpose of the thread was to examine our past and present impressions/perceptions of Arabs and Muslims as groups. Now it seems to be an argument about who is on whose side.

Unfortunately, there is repeated offenders here ... we have been through this in the Jews thread, the Gaza thread and others. This one is just payback time.

Those are threads I've tried to stay away from. A friend of mine covers that in her blog, and unfortunately I get more bad news that way than I can handle. So I have no idea what happened in the threads you're referring to, but whenever I read news articles about it I get angry at the stupid factions in all the groups involved. Yes, I include the US Government as a prime "stupid faction" factor.
 
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