What is your first impression about Muslims or Arabs ?

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da Sage

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I wouldn't call this chatting. That would imply mutual respect and courtesy and a willingness to give people who disagree with one the benefit of the doubt. So far, it's only been one way.

Actually, at this point I think everyone still active here has given courtesy the drop-kick at least once. Except maybe Farasha and khanjar. But I was really snarky to summerdancer. And I still don't think Dipali has been rude at all, but a lot of people seem to feel he has. I wonder if that is carryover from the other threads that I haven't read, though.

I still think it's a fair question to ask, how did people who live elsewhere "see" the USA when they were kids? How did they learn about us - from their parents, from books at school, from watching "The A-Team" on TV?
 

khanjar

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For a second lets turn the topic around, Ask a British person what their first impression of Indians or ask the Australian what they think about the aboriginal people. I could have included all those if it was not a belly dance forum . Don't you think I am aware of people who think Indians stink like curry , or “they always p*** me off trying to sell something on the phone“ “what about the Indians in UAE, the ones who build all the giant skyscrapers , what does the Emirates think about them, They are not on top of the list of friendship exactly , are they ? The joke about the Indian accent is highly amusing subject among westerners. Because thats how they see Indians.


We all have attitude towards each other, if you pretend you don't , well good for you.

Dipali, there is nothing wrong with Indians, what we have in the west, the people who say such things are largely just ignorant. And as to Indians smell of curry, well back in my teens my pal asked my aunt this question, as it was common at the time. She explained the business with poorer people and food and the fact that curry spices make the stuff edible, the result being the spices come through the skin and keep insects away. Why my aunt, well, she was married to a Sri Lankan whose cooking was superbe, a truly nice man, ever friendly and helpful.

And of India, it is ancient, many of what we use today comes from there, ayurveda, Buddhism, even NASA has transcripts of translated sanskrit, trying to find the secrets of the vimans. The Indians today, what an intellect, people who can get really dead machines working, long after the west has given up with them, the ingenuity knows no bounds. Then there is the art of India, the temple art and carvings, truly wonderful. No, you Indians should be proud of what you are, you hold a great wealth.

I suppose India was yet another place the British messed up, colonials, the British raj etc, what we have here in the UK, much of what the ignorant spout might well be based on the lies of the past.

Oh, as to the report of '' Indians trying to sell on the phone '', well whose fault is that, none other than western companies outsourcing cheaper labour. I will admit though, it is communication, Indian English over a crackly telephone line, is not too good, many do not have the patience to listen.
 

khanjar

New member
Hi Khanjar,

Will it help if I explain that my opinions are worse than yours because I am American and you are from the UK? If you read CS Lewis it's OK, if I do it is insulting orientalist fantasy. I've spoken up for the wrong people, and dared to argue with the (other) wrong people, and now I'm in the doghouse. So I'm an arrogant imperialist !@#$, and you're in the clear. Make sense?

Interesting to note, C.S. Lewis was a Brit, he along with Lewis Caroll, and Tolkein formed the Inklings, a small gathering where they met to discuss ideas. Tolkein also based one of his people on the then Turkish Ottoman empire,yes, you guessed it, on the side of the badies so Lewis was not alone in that, it was the thought at the time, Victorian England.

So you of the U.S., many of you are from Europe and not that long ago, you cannot be called imperialist because the guilty parties were upper class Brits, the same upper class that pillaged both India, Egypt and anywhere else that had wealth to steal. The commoners, many of whom emigrated to the U.S. to seek a better life did so to escape the rule of the upper class.
 

Kharmine

New member
...
I still think it's a fair question to ask, how did people who live elsewhere "see" the USA when they were kids? How did they learn about us - from their parents, from books at school, from watching "The A-Team" on TV?

Well, the discourtesy didn't start with the creation of this thread, or its participation by people who posted honestly and thoughtfully about their experiences.

And I agree that it's a fair question to ask, particularly for this thread. We are all products of our environment and that includes popular culture -- advertising, movies, TV, music, magazines, etc.

I've had friends, boyfriends, roommates, teachers, fellow students, clients and co-workers from countries outside the States who told me about their misperceptions about Americans formed before they came to live here. Far from offending me, I find their stories hilarious, sad and sometimes touching.

Hollywood has a LOT to answer for! :rolleyes:
 
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Maria_Aya

New member
Me too I don't know what to make out of this thread except we only have Mr D to thank for bringing it out for general discussion instead of keeping it as a family secret.

You see, I have the same condition as poor Awasef oh dear she has been suffering from since she was born too.

I have been exposed to a different strain of this dreadful virus I just didn't realize it until I started to travel at the tender age of 19 I have lived and suffered from this dreadful disease without knowing

I learned the truth about it when I went to France and one of my first girlfriend family member an older gentleman, he was positive that she only go out with me, because I have a big manhood just like the other Arabs and Muslims. The man was paralyzed from the neck down but he can recite every filthy thing Charles de Gaulle have said about Muslims and Arabs.

Needless to say my girlfriend asked me about the missing 2 inches in my manhood ... I told her Ooh I have been circumcised just like my other cousins ... the children of Abrams.

The kicker was this gentleman was a Jew born in Alexandria and left with all of his money in 1956 and lived the high life as a Frenchman.

Fast-forward .. upon arriving to US I lost my extra 2 inch manhood and bragging right .. we just get replaced by the Black man.

Furthermore, the symptoms of the disease changed to the psyche side of things cowered, wife beater, they treat women their women like piece of shit .. and terrorists just to name a few.

You see, if Mr. D did not bring it out I would have lived and died thinking I'm the only one who suffer from the disease. ... in hey I learn something new thing about us Muslims and Arabs.
 
meat eater
 
Dear Mr. D. you have made it crystal clear about your attitude toward Muslims and Arabs in this forum .. :rolleyes:

the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree ...

you are just fantastic !!!

Growing up as a greek-italian in Australia was already kind of different, mostly at school we hoocked up with arab/mediterenean kids and it was crazy fun !!
Beside that lebanese snoby chick (at 7 years old !!!) that she was looking us like we were the most dirty kids on earth (we were, mug fight in the backyard of the school was our favorite lol) it was fun! and this was my first impression from arab world !! plus I loved the Ramadan sweets !!!

;)
Maria Aya
 

Kharis

New member
Hello everybody

As a human being we often take the first impression or introductions as an experience and we often make our assumptions on that ground. I would like to know what was your first impression on Arabs or Muslims. Have you changed your outlook because of your involvement with the culture (even if it is a hafla level dance ) , or have you been brought up with a generous attitude. I don't know if its too personal to ask?Dev

Been reading this thread with interest. I take people as I find them. My first contact with Arabs was via the dance. I find the culture fascinating, and the people warm and friendly, and I've had no negative experiences because of someone's religion or culture. I've had negative experiences because of their personalities, not because of anything else. I find most cultures interesting and each has a lot to offer. I wish to God we could all get on more, though. There is good and bad in all of us, regardless of culture, but as human beings, we all suffer from an astounding lack of tolerance and forgiveness.
 

Kharis

New member
So I was over-exposed to Saudi Arabian stories, and other ideas came from fairy tales via the Red Fairy Book, the Green Fairy book, etc (there were a couple of stories that were related to Arabia in my mind then, not that I remember them now). And The Horse and His Boy (C.S. Lewis orientalist fantasy nation, inspired by the Ottoman Empire/Turkey).

As a child I read The Arabian Nights, and I had this notion that the Middle East was exotic and I still feel that way!!! I feel there is something really spiritual about that neck of the woods. Perhaps I've been an Arab in a former life..who knows. But I definitely gravitate towards the culture. I feel that there's something spiritually 'impending' about the Middle East. I can't explain that statement. I just have a feeling. Like there's something there that the whole world is missing.
 

Kharmine

New member
I think "exotic" is whatever we didn't grow up with!

No doubt, somewhere there is a child who thinks growing up on a dairy farm in Minnesota is exotic.
 

Kharis

New member
I don't think now is the forum for something like this, maybe when the appropriate forum comes up, i'd be happy to oblige.

I'd be interested to know about your country, Kayshier. I have a very good friend who's from Dominica, and her stories of that island have fasincated me. She has tales of how they lived out there, and it sounds like heaven to me....well, compared to dreary old wet cloudy cold Manchester. But like you say, that's another thread. Perhaps you could start one.
 

Kharis

New member
I think "exotic" is whatever we didn't grow up with!

No doubt, somewhere there is a child who thinks growing up on a dairy farm in Minnesota is exotic.

I don't quite agree with that one...I didn't grow upwith a lot of things, but still don't find them exotic. Perhaps exotic was the wrong word, but it's hard to find a good alternative to 'interesting'.

However, growing up on a dairy farm does sound a good place to grow up.
 

Kharis

New member
Actually, at this point I think everyone still active here has given courtesy the drop-kick at least once. Except maybe Farasha and khanjar. But I was really snarky to summerdancer. And I still don't think Dipali has been rude at all, but a lot of people seem to feel he has. I wonder if that is carryover from the other threads that I haven't read, though.

I still think it's a fair question to ask, how did people who live elsewhere "see" the USA when they were kids? How did they learn about us - from their parents, from books at school, from watching "The A-Team" on TV?

I was rather intimidated when I was younger regarding the USA. My only exposure was via TV and film and it all seemed very violent to me. I saw the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and was terrified of the thought of crossing the States in a camper van!!!! And as for Deliverance? Squeal Piggy!!!!
 

Kharis

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On a more serious note... I've read and re-read this thread several times just in case I missed some cultural slur..and couldn't really find any.

My first exposure to Arabs and Muslims was as a baby. I don't react to them now in any way because I have developed antibodies that make me immune to experiencing adverse reactions. Hopefully a vaccine will be developed one day. Good luck.

This kind of sarcasm smacks of spoiling for a fight. I understand that this is a delicate subject but how is being this cutting going to resolve things.

Summerdance,

The purpose of this thread is for all the bigots on this forum to spout their negative perceptions of Arabs and Muslims, and then congratulate themselves and each other for not demonizing them even further than they already have.

Why are you creating bigots where there are none? Not once has anyone said anything derogatory or bigoted. Not once. No bloody wonder this board has a bad reputation and people either don't post or run away. For the love of God, can't we all have a little tolerance and understanding here? If anyone is creating a 'them and us' feel here its this kind of inane argument laced with sarcasm that tries to tar us all with the same bigoted brush.

We actually all have something to contribute here, all of us. I wish I could speak Arabic, but I can't. I did try to learn it once, but it was very difficult for me. So, when those who do speak Arabic on here send a post out, it would be nice for an english interpretation for the likes of me so that I can understand what's being said. There is a thread on here at the moment, that is entirely in Arabic. That immediately excludes everyone who can't speak that language. Do you see us complaining? Do you see us up in arms as being excluded from this inner Arabic speaking circle? Take a long hard look in the mirror here.
 

Lydia

New member
I read this thread for the first time this evening, and I want to say, I've had it---enough is enough.

When I first joined this forum, which was not so long ago (April 2007 under the username OkieRose), I absolutely loved it. Everyone was friendly and helpful, and I've grown to love so many here. I had found what I considered to be my online bellydance "home." But lately, there have been too many explosions in different threads across the forum. I don't know understand what's happened; I know in a large community like this, there are going to be disagreements every now and then, but this is ridiculous. I'm so very upset. I don't understand why a community of adults are all of a sudden finding it hard to get along with one another.

All of this fighting is hurting me so badly. I don't want to be here anymore. :(

I'm sorry, Salome.

I agree!!! here the same !!!!!
and
Dipaly i think you must just explain you did not mean it this way....
This threat is just to much...it gives me cramp in my belly!! come on everybody you dont mean all this!!!
we use to be friends !! what happened?????Farasha is correct what happened to all the nice people ,post and ,,family,, we hade overhere...this is way to much...i dont visit here to much anymore because of this ,just to much negative talking...perhaps some people think ,wel who cares that you dont visit much,but it perhaps can turn around and then you will feel that you have last your online family ...FORUM FOR ORIENTAL DANCE !!!!
 

lizaj

New member
As a child it was all the vision of dashing and romantic desert sheiks in books and on film. My father came back from Palestine with tales of heat and flies and regularly shattered the romantic image:confused:
Being brought up in a place like Liverpool, you tended to judge people once you knew them as non-white faces were not unusual and being a seaport , you saw sailors from all over the world ( and your mother told you to behave yourself;)) "Exotic" or different people merited little more than a second glance from me even though I lived in a predominantly white middle class suburb.
I first got close to Arab/Muslim people much later at university and remember being alarmed at the diminishing body space I was alllowed by other cultures. A rather handsome and dashing Syrian gent who dressed all in black complete with turban ( and reinforced all my teenage "desert sheik " images) used to seem to want to stand alarmingly close..where was my British arm's length distance.?By this time I had never even ventured to Europe let alone Africa. Religion hum well my mother ..a practising Christian from a mixed protestant/RC family taught me everyone has the right to make sense of the world in their own way. By the time I had children and was teaching I had a small number of Jewish and Muslim friends as well as Christians. Sorry it didn't seem important.
The school curriculum for Y7 history contains a section on "The Crusades" and teaches respect for the far advanced Islamic culture at that time so I delighted in my first visits to" Islamic" Spanish cities.
Learning this dance made me want to visit Egypt etc but sorry to say I visited Luxor (then Marakkesh)in the last few years and wouldn't have been broken hearted not to see belly dancers as long as I could glory in architecture from a time when we were building small square towers and mounds of earth!When Bagdad had universities and bath houses and we put toads on plague boils and piled on the fur coats.
 

lizaj

New member
Hi Masrawy, I have never heard this interesting trivia about Arab gentlemen! :lol: Although I did read in the Kinsey Report about the Portuguese...so what else should I know, please enlighten me...:)

I'm afraid I was overly sharp with summerdance. I had no idea she was Arab, I assumed she was just another a white-bread American/European who thinks all preconceived notions about gender, nationality, and racer are Evil Prejudices That Can Never Be Overcome, instead of a base that can be rebuilt/augmented with better information and wider experience. I guess I should check out people's profiles before I make assumptions about who they are and where they're coming from.

Do please tell me what Kinsey has to say about the Portuguese as I am off to Madeira in a few weeks....;)
 

lizaj

New member
Oh dear I do want to reinforce that some of us Western "Christians" ( I am one only in so far that I think the man himself was a sensible guy with some good ideas for a stable society) were actually brought up to be open minded and have respect for the achievements of others.
I don't have a lot of time for those who hang onto their chip laden shoulders.
I admit that in my society people of ther skin colours and faiths have it far tougher than those with the right postal address.
My son dated a Hindu girl and it sure wasn't us that broke up the relationship but her family said she was not going to marry a white lower class man . She was waiting for an Indian doctor or lawyer....So do I and my son feel resentment? nah chips? nah brush 'em off and get on with it Sad and sorry yes she was a lovely lovely girl but ..Their loss..their prejudice,snobbery not mine.
I do not fully understand why the women living in my area should choose to wear hijab but I will defend their right to do so.
 

Kharis

New member
My son dated a Hindu girl and it sure wasn't us that broke up the relationship but her family said she was not going to marry a white lower class man . She was waiting for an Indian doctor or lawyer....So do I and my son feel resentment? nah chips? nah brush 'em off and get on with it Sad and sorry yes she was a lovely lovely girl but ..Their loss..their prejudice,snobbery not mine..


Prejudices against white people seem to be conveniently forgotten about. Like we don't have to put up with it. It works both ways. Why carry that chip (plank) around with you like some hair shirt. We all have to take responsibility for ourselves as individuals. If we all did that, the world would be much nicer place.
 
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