What is your first impression about Muslims or Arabs ?

[khanjar]

Prejudices against white people seem to be conveniently forgotten about. Like we don't have to put up with it. It works both ways. Why carry that chip (plank) around with you like some hair shirt. We all have to take responsibility for ourselves as individuals. If we all did that, the world would be much nicer place.

Phew, I am glad you had the courage to say this, and bravo to you for being so brave.

It is true though, we of the white race do suffer all kinds of prejudice, often many of us go around with the feeling we are despised because of our colour, based upon past sins of our ancestors. I even find myself ready to apologise for being of the race that taunted other races, as if all of us that are white and Western are just plain guilty because of our ancestry and colour.

Many of us from the west want to move on, we are making personal efforts to correct our ancestral behaviour, in a midst where one wrong word or phrase, we are instantly assumed to be racist. Get it, we are not, we are just trying to learn and get on with our neighbours, sometimes, it would be nice if others recognised that fact and met us half way.

And before anyone says not all of either colour or race make efforts to understand, remember, these people are everywhere, in every race and culture, perhaps they are just not worth bothering with, find the people who are making an effort.

 

[lizaj]

I'm the first to say you have it tougher here in the UK if you are black or Asian. We still have a real problem with racism, institutional,hidden whatver. But we do now have good laws in place and many of us here in the UK recognise (that why we call ourselves the United Kingdom and not Great Britain any more) that we have a less than splendid history regarding treatment of and attitude toward other people. But we now have people of minority ethnic groups who are British heroes and a better understanding of the perspectives of those people around the world.
A few years back , I walked into a classroom where 12 years olds were questioning , without prompting, the motives of our governemnt's invasion of Iraq. Years ago that would never have happened.
Of course there's a long way to go still before everyone is prepared to look at their fellow as an equal.
What I really resent is when someone turns all our good intentions on their head or accuse a tolerant person of being patronising

 

[kayshier]

I respectfully disagree. I thought the original purpose of the thread was to examine our past and present impressions/perceptions of Arabs and Muslims as groups. Now it seems to be an argument about who is on whose side.

given the trend of threads recently and mean spritiedness that seems to come along with it, it would be very reasonable to think that this thread is in the same vein as the others...

I don't think you understand or others understand how it comes across, threads like this..
let me give you an example of what i might be talking about

there was one time i visited the states, was at a friends house, and her father had hired a chemisty major to give her remedial lessons in high school chemistry.
it so happened that on one of his visits i was there. he seemed rather pleasant and open...we were introduced and his first question to me was

"is trinidad in africa?"...
(of course totally oblivious to the fact that the persons who were paying him were also from trinidad just that they have been legal residents of the us for a while)

i looked at him shocked and asked him,
why? is it because I am so dark and you've only seen such dark people on tv in africa??

immediatley realising how stupid he was sounding he apologized

this is perception that he had yes, but the way he went about it was insensitive and insulting...he could have simply asked me..
'where is your country?" or just left it as an open ended question "tell me about your country?"

this is what this entire thread reminds me of....

if i were to start a thread about what i 'honestly and openly' thought white people were like before i actually met a few i doubt very much that it would be tolerated..

all i am saying is that you put the shoe on the other foot.

 

[gisela]

I keep wanting to say something but I can't make sense of my thoughts...
Many of you have said "what if it was the other way around?" well.. I don't see the difference, I don't see why that would not be tolerated aaaah I can't make sense of it sorry
I am truly sorry that people are so offended on both sides and it's making my stomach hurt.
I have met MANY people who thought sweden was switzerland, who thought all swedish girls are easy and excitingly willing to give dubious massages etc etc and that's annoying yes, but I don't expect everyone to know everything about my country and culture.

The problem here seems to be that people have different views on what is offensive. Somone think it's a discussion and someone else thinks it's just condescending and offensive. Who can say what is right? is the offended part always right? And who is that? everyone here is offended now in some way...

 

[Lydia]

Gisela.....dance habibiti!!! LOL

 

[kayshier]

I keep wanting to say something but I don't know what to think....

that pic would just sum up this thread...

a cat the just left the herd...refer to "herding cats."

 

[Awasef]

On a more serious note... I've read and re-read this thread several times just in case I missed some cultural slur..and couldn't really find any.



This kind of sarcasm smacks of spoiling for a fight. I understand that this is a delicate subject but how is being this cutting going to resolve things.



Why are you creating bigots where there are none? Not once has anyone said anything derogatory or bigoted. Not once. No bloody wonder this board has a bad reputation and people either don't post or run away. For the love of God, can't we all have a little tolerance and understanding here? If anyone is creating a 'them and us' feel here its this kind of inane argument laced with sarcasm that tries to tar us all with the same bigoted brush.

We actually all have something to contribute here, all of us. I wish I could speak Arabic, but I can't. I did try to learn it once, but it was very difficult for me. So, when those who do speak Arabic on here send a post out, it would be nice for an english interpretation for the likes of me so that I can understand what's being said. There is a thread on here at the moment, that is entirely in Arabic. That immediately excludes everyone who can't speak that language. Do you see us complaining? Do you see us up in arms as being excluded from this inner Arabic speaking circle? Take a long hard look in the mirror here.

You cannot equate an Arabic-language thread with this one. I don't know what your point is exactly, but somehow you feel that speaking in Arabic is on a par with listing negative stereotypes of a people and culture. In your confused mind, there is apparently some parallel, and us Arabs should be feeling contrite for speaking in our language without providing you with subtitles.

Clearly you do feel resentful about it, even though you state that you are not 'up in arms' as you would not have brought it up, and would not have brought it up here on this particular thread.

The fact that you do not see any bigotry in this thread does not mean that it is not there, and that others do not see it. It seems that anyone with a gripe against Arabs and Muslims is annoyed that this thread was derailed from its original purpose, which is antagonistic and serves no good purpose.

 

[Awasef]

Prejudices against white people seem to be conveniently forgotten about. Like we don't have to put up with it. It works both ways. Why carry that chip (plank) around with you like some hair shirt. We all have to take responsibility for ourselves as individuals. If we all did that, the world would be much nicer place.

This thread is not about white people though, is it. If you want to moan about prejudices against white people, perhaps you should start another thread on the subject. You can complain about how hard-done by white people are, and at the same time congratulate yourself for being inherently superior in that you do not react in the same fashion as people of other colours.

 

[Awasef]

I was going to make a joke, but I think it would go over like a lead balloon.

I'll just say that comparing the people chatting on this thread to the Taliban is taking it too far. The Taliban didn't get where they are by talking.

No, please do make the joke. I would be surprised if you come up with anything more than a grade-school level taunt.

 

[Dev]

I had a very different feelings about the thread when I have started , My intension was to share with others how we have been taught to view Muslim people, Some of you also seem to missed the point where I say we had no idea about Arabs when we were kids, something we did not know much about. . I used the word “Arab” because in most Western country people will see or meet an Arab in their daily life than an Indonesian. The used of Muslim as a religion because thats the most closest religion I was exposed to other than Hindu. I don't think it matters now what I explain You all have made a decision.



I did partcipate in a thread in the Indian forum " Australians are racist" that was after the cricket row.

 

[Dev]

Awasef

My first exposure to Arabs and Muslims was as a baby. I don't react to them now in any way because I have developed antibodies that make me immune to experiencing adverse reactions. Hopefully a vaccine will be developed one day. Good luck.

Facetious comments are welcome too.

The purpose of this thread is for all the bigots on this forum to spout their negative perceptions of Arabs and Muslims, and then congratulate themselves and each other for not demonizing them even further than they already have.

No arguments, if you think that way so be it, Have you read my other posts, I just thought its better not to make any spectacular judgment about other personality without knowing them . Please carry on.

An apology would be more relevant than whatever your explanation might be for starting this thread.

I find it quite difficult to apologies somebody who is begging for it.



thank you

 

[Reen.Blom]

I had a very different feelings about the thread when I have started , My intension was to share with others how we have been taught to view Muslim people, Some of you also seem to missed the point where I say we had no idea about Arabs when we were kids, something we did not know much about. . I used the word “Arab” because in most Western country people will see or meet an Arab in their daily life than an Indonesian. The used of Muslim as a religion because thats the most closest religion I was exposed to other than Hindu. I don't think it matters now what I explain You all have made a decision.



I did partcipate in a thread in the Indian forum " Australians are racist" that was after the cricket row.

Ay Dipali, have a hug.... We are all from so many different backgrounds, that even if we all use same words, the meanings can remain different...

So, grin and bear it, just dont forget to duck from flying stones.... :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[kayshier]

I had a very different feelings about the thread when I have started , My intension was to share with others how we have been taught to view Muslim people, Some of you also seem to missed the point where I say we had no idea about Arabs when we were kids, something we did not know much about. . I used the word “Arab” because in most Western country people will see or meet an Arab in their daily life than an Indonesian. The used of Muslim as a religion because thats the most closest religion I was exposed to other than Hindu. I don't think it matters now what I explain You all have made a decision.



I did partcipate in a thread in the Indian forum " Australians are racist" that was after the cricket row.

surely dipali there might have been a better way to get that point across...i would think of course that the point of the thread was to dispel whatever negative notions that may have been harboured?

so you have been taught negative things about people who practice Islam, and by extension Arabs (since all arabs are not muslims)...ok that is fact but does that mean that is has to be presented in such a disassociated way so as to be miscontrued as offensive?

 

[Dev]

Dear Mr. D. you have made it crystal clear about your attitude toward Muslims and Arabs in this forum .

Dear M


:lol: you have made your mind a long time ago , The last post is the official confirmation , or say formal announcements. // will talk to you in another thread. Ciao for now.

 

[Dev]

surely dipali there might have been a better way to get that point across...i would think of course that the point of the thread was to dispel whatever negative notions that may have been harboured?

so you have been taught negative things about people who practice Islam, and by extension Arabs (since all arabs are not muslims)...ok that is fact but does that mean that is has to be presented in such a disassociated way so as to be miscontrued as offensive?

Why did not you answer it in more positive way.


I noticed abundance of sarcastic comments you have made about the thread I started . I wonder why? Are you up to prove something so hard that you found this is an fantastic opportunity ? In one hand you are telling me how not so sensitive I am because I started this thread on the other hand you trying to be insensitive with me. This is what I will tell you for now, in the future if you have problem with my post ask my motivation as I ask you with a pleasant manner. Thank you.


To answer your question

Dipali how would you feel if people told you that hindus are racist because of the caste system? that they treat the darkest of peoples (untouchables) as some sort of animal lower than a dog?

I don't disagree when that is the truth . you should have read my ranting about the caste system before ?

that hindus, kill their female children at birth because they are not worth anything to the parents in arranged marriages?

Now thats not true so I disagree with you. (If that was an example of some sorts I did not get it then , because I did not lie in my post )


Anything else ?

 

[kayshier]

Why did not you answer it in more positive way.


I noticed abundance of sarcastic comments you have made about the thread I started . I wonder why? Are you up to prove something so hard that you found this is an fantastic opportunity ? In one hand you are telling me how not so sensitive I am because I started this thread on the other hand you trying to be insensitive with me. This is what I will tell you for now, in the future if you have problem with my post ask my motivation as I ask you with a pleasant manner. Thank you.


To answer your question





I don't disagree when that is the truth . you should have read my ranting about the caste system before ?






Now thats not true so I disagree with you. (If that was an example of some sorts I did not get it then , because I did not lie in my post )


Anything else ?

The sarcastic comments i made about hindus was to show you in the same vein the way you would have felt if the thread title were "what is your first impression of hindus/indians?"...it in no way reflects my personal feelings or what may have been popular opinion. as a matter of fact i qualified my statement by saying that these are perceptions that have been perpetuated in order to villify minorities...

actually I am glad you felt that i was being insenstive...from that you should have understood how it felt for the arabs of this forum to have read your first post. that was the point i was making throughout the thread..

I am not here to fight down anyone or score points...I am here to make the point that there was a serious oversight in this thread..that reeked of dissrespect

why are we now so sensitive about my mentioning caste system? I can't say that i have been here long enough to have read your ranting about the caste system....that's not the point of this thread. as i said before, now you should understand how it feels for others who were offended by this thread...

I did not answer the thread in a more positive way, because there was in fact NOTHING in the context of the first post that would have generated anything else but a negative answer and caused the bruhahaha that has resulted..
what i should have done was use your post and just replace, religions and ethnicities conveniently so that others would have a chance to read and experience what it is like to be insulted, and then have keep quiet about it because after all, political correctness should be thrown out the window, we are all speaking the truth and just expressing how we feel....

 

[gypsy8522]

The sarcastic comments i made about hindus was to show you in the same vein the way you would have felt if the thread title were "what is your first impression of hindus/indians?"...it in no way reflects my personal feelings or what may have been popular opinion. as a matter of fact i qualified my statement by saying that these are perceptions that have been perpetuated in order to villify minorities...

actually I am glad you felt that i was being insenstive...from that you should have understood how it felt for the arabs of this forum to have read your first post. that was the point i was making throughout the thread..

I am not here to fight down anyone or score points...I am here to make the point that there was a serious oversight in this thread..that reeked of dissrespect

why are we now so sensitive about my mentioning caste system? I can't say that i have been here long enough to have read your ranting about the caste system....that's not the point of this thread. as i said before, now you should understand how it feels for others who were offended by this thread...

I did not answer the thread in a more positive way, because there was in fact NOTHING in the context of the first post that would have generated anything else but a negative answer and caused the bruhahaha that has resulted..
what i should have done was use your post and just replace, religions and ethnicities conveniently so that others would have a chance to read and experience what it is like to be insulted, and then have keep quiet about it because after all, political correctness should be thrown out the window, we are all speaking the truth and just expressing how we feel....

Kayshier,

If only I could + rep for every post you made. But I can only give you one.

Thank you, I couldn't have expressed it better myself.

 

[gisela]

Dearest all,
I am asking of EVERYONE in this thread now to please think about what you are saying and how. If you have a question for someone, could you please ask it in a decent and honest way and stay away from strange jokes, names or sarcastic comments?!
This is NOT a post for someone particular but for everyone that wishes to participate in this thread.
Regards Gisela (mod)

 

[Aniseteph]

I used the word “Arab” because in most Western country people will see or meet an Arab in their daily life than an Indonesian.

Sweeping generalisation Dipali, IMO sweeping generalisation are at the root of why people are taking offence here.

For a second lets turn the topic around, ....The joke about the Indian accent is highly amusing subject among westerners. Because thats how they see Indians.

No, it isn't. That's not true.

The minute you (generic), as an outsider of a particular group, stick a label on a group and say that "they" do/think/believe whatever, you are defining that group on your terms, and it is not your place to do that.

Any group used to being on the receiving end of bad attitudes/press knows what tends to follow being labelled - another shovelful of it. So I am not surprised people get angry and the whole thing gets extremely divisive.

I think I can see what you meant by this thread, and I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at the stereotypes and misinformation that some of us are (or have been) fed, and how an interest in belly dance might have changed that. But the wording is just wrong IMO.

 

[Kharis]

You cannot equate an Arabic-language thread with this one. I don't know what your point is exactly, but somehow you feel that speaking in Arabic is on a par with listing negative stereotypes of a people and culture. In your confused mind, there is apparently some parallel, and us Arabs should be feeling contrite for speaking in our language without providing you with subtitles.

Clearly you do feel resentful about it, even though you state that you are not 'up in arms' as you would not have brought it up, and would not have brought it up here on this particular thread.

The fact that you do not see any bigotry in this thread does not mean that it is not there, and that others do not see it. It seems that anyone with a gripe against Arabs and Muslims is annoyed that this thread was derailed from its original purpose, which is antagonistic and serves no good purpose.

I'm not resentful at all. Why should I be? I'm wondering how it would be if a thread was started that excluded a certain group merely because that group could not understand the language...and this is public belly dance board and shouldn't all be welcome? It seems like it's you who is resentful, resentful in so many ways judging from your posts.

In your confused mind, there is apparently some parallel, and us Arabs should be feeling contrite for speaking in our language without providing you with subtitles.

This paragraph says it all. You are insulting by being unnecessarily sarcastic about my state of mind - you use the term ' us Arabs' which immediately segregates - and you twist my words by inferring that I wish you to be contrite regarding translation of Arabic.

If you have a thread in Arabic, I'm not bothered one way or the other. But you came on here and immediately started attacking people for their experiences in an inflammatory and highly intolerant way as though YOU are the only one ever to have experienced prejudice.

I'm still not sure where the bigotry is... perhaps you are being a touch sensitive here. Perhaps you could explain to us in more detail exactly what you find so offensive.