What's Happening in Egypt Right now

Kashmir

Kashmir

New member
Although not condoning the violence, with respect to the US reaction, one of our national cartoonist made a connection between condemning "democracy suspended, human rights denied and people shot in the street" with the treatment of Palestinians by Israel.
 
Sophia Maria

Sophia Maria

New member
Well, if there's anything the U.S. is good at, it's creating stability for itself. It may preach democracy, human rights, and freedom, but we'd all be childish to believe it. The real strength of America is it's damn stability--the checks and balances system of government, for example, which makes the government like a big immovable block. It also, obviously has an obsession with "protecting interests abroad". I really do hate this phrase. It's used during every major political campaign. I think it's gross, and it creates so many problems and steps on everybody else's toes. I just think we as American citizens just occupy such a privileged space in the world that we forget that. I mean, how would the average U.S. citizen react if we heard that Egyptian officials were coming into our country and Egyptian military bases were in our state, in order to protect Egyptian "interests" in the region? It's all bull----. But I'm ranting.

The comparison to Algeria was definitely something I thought of and it is worrisome.
 
MizzNaaa

MizzNaaa

New member
I pretty much was gonna say everything Sirene said...except I don't think anything you do truly will change the US foreign policy :/ Call me pessimistic, but no president/senate ever managed to change it, so I'm not optimistic now. Especially that the US pulling aid from our Army means Russia will have the room open to come in and help. Putin's been vigorously offering support. Also US pulling aid from Egypt means US loses a lot of priveledges in the middle-east that we provided...so yeah. It's far more complicated to them than the slaughter of human lives. Ends justify the means at its finest.

I'm sitting here shaking my head at both my people who support the army cause ends justify the means and the MB are terrorists -their words not mine- and yeah...I'm done.
 
T

Tiziri

New member
Sirène said:
Simply put, because the US government values US security over democracy or human rights elsewhere. In fact, the US Government has been guilty of suspending the civil rights of US citizens, on US soil, in the name of 'fighting terrorism', so I really don't see it renouncing its association with the Egyptian military since the relationship provides strategic access to the Mid-East theater during times of war. Harsh, but true. I think there are people, even among the higher-ups, that would prefer to 'win hearts' by building hospitals, schools and improving infrastructure, but if that's not an option, then they will do whatever they consider necessary to make sure US interests are protected. It's cold and calculating, but it's how it works.

If Americans want the administration to do more than "cancel a joint military exercise", we're going to have to get vocal about it and make it something that affects them directly: let politicians know that US foreign policy in the Middle East will influence our vote in the upcoming election cycle. 2013 may not be a presidential election year, but those aiming for a Senate seat in 2014 have already begun preparations— they're listening, not necessarily because they care about human rights, but because they want us to put a check next to their name before we pull the lever in November.
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You are right; I understand protecting national interests, every country does it, and if they didn't they'd be fools. I can even get behind policy decisions made that are pragmatic (i.e., backing this leader and not this one, for entirely practical reasons) if not necessarily popular or intuitive, if there's some logic behind it.

I do think this is an administrative misfire, if for no other reason than that it looks like something that will only lead to destabilizing further an already volatile situation. That's leaving alone the more humane reasons like not killing people; I think this was a mistake on the administration's part.

(To clarify, a lot of my emotional stance on this comes from the public's reaction about it. A lot of it's ugly, and I don't see how people can defend that in their hearts.)

MizzNaaa said:
I pretty much was gonna say everything Sirene said...except I don't think anything you do truly will change the US foreign policy :/ Call me pessimistic, but no president/senate ever managed to change it, so I'm not optimistic now. Especially that the US pulling aid from our Army means Russia will have the room open to come in and help. Putin's been vigorously offering support. Also US pulling aid from Egypt means US loses a lot of priveledges in the middle-east that we provided...so yeah. It's far more complicated to them than the slaughter of human lives. Ends justify the means at its finest.

I'm sitting here shaking my head at both my people who support the army cause ends justify the means and the MB are terrorists -their words not mine- and yeah...I'm done.
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That's an excellent point about Russia. Your country is so pivotal to foreign policy in the Middle East (which I think is part of why I feel this was a mistake), but it's also pivotal to OTHER interests as well.
 
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Z

Zumarrad

Active member
I feel fairly certain that the truth about what is happening lies somewhere in the middle. Why can't we all just get along? Obviously as a fluffy liberal artsy type I disdain the imposition of Sharia on non-Muslims and would like Egypt to continue acknowledging that it is not a 100 percent Wahhabist nation, but I also feel that slaughtering protesters, even if they ARE armed with stones and such, is never a good idea. Reminds me of Ireland a bit (only a bit) or Palestine. I wish there were dispassionate reports available from inside Egypt.
 
MizzNaaa

MizzNaaa

New member
@Zumarrad, Egypt's not wahhabist at all. Muslims here are almost ENTIRELY moderate Sunni's. The wahhabist culture/interpretation of Islam is new, it came with the gulf money and has been trying to spread itself all over Egypt for the past few decades. Still, Wahhabists are a tiny minority.

At this point, finding dispassionate reports is almost impossible. I'm constantly attacked by friends the moment I try to express an opinion that is neutral or doesn't support either factions. The whole society is extremely polarized. You're either with the Muslim brotherhood or with the army. Media is exactly the same way.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle between the tales told by both sides, after removing all the 'embellishments'. At this point someone like me can only try to deduce what's happening by listening to both sides and trying to exercise some logic. So yeah.
 
Z

Zumarrad

Active member
Hi MizzNaa - sorry, I was being sarcastic about the wahhabist thing, a movement that seems bound and determined to take over Islam completely!!

It must be so difficult to be there right now, with everyone's opinions polarised and danger lurking here and there. As I'm sure you know it's exactly the same out here, everyone is either "MB are terrorists they must be locked away" or "army has staged a coup and deposed a democratically elected government, oh noes". I'm so glad you're OK and keeping us informed about what is going on from your perspective.
 
Morocco

Morocco

New member
MizzNaaa said:
This is a post I put on my tumblr blog because people have been complaining and asking about the little news that was there. I decided to share it here to try and shed some light about what happened and how things got to this point.
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Thank you, ya habibti, ya binti! My friends in Egypt have been afraid to talk openly with me on the phone because they don't know who is also listening ...

I *know* the media have their agendas & what we are seeing is selective, to say the least. A friend, Leyla Lanty, posted 5 photos on Facebook of the *same* Morsy supporter (in a very distinctive outfit) dramatically "dying" of his wounds from army gunfire in 5 different locations. Nice work, if you can get it. Those pix & videos of his "death" showed up on all the media, including al Jazeera.

My offer still stands, if you need it. I hope to get there in Dec., in sha Allah.

My total support,
Morocco
 
Safran

Safran

New member
Just to bring a bit light-hearted humour to this thread, here is an article about how people entertain themselves during the curfew... I mean, in Estonia I would have no problem staying in at 9pm on most of the nights, but here even I feel very constrained trying to make it to home by the time of the curfew...

Curfew discoveries - Daily News Egypt
 
Safran

Safran

New member
I left Egypt this morning, but I do have to say that the Egyptian media is not doing a completely objective job broadcasting the events either. I tried to keep an eye on both - the local channels and CNN/BBC, and then at least attempted to figure out where the truth is somewhere in between...
 
AndreaSTL

AndreaSTL

New member
Safran, how did this visit feel relative to your previous visits? I was last there in April, and while there was a definite difference I still felt safe.
 
Safran

Safran

New member
Actually, except for the one time we got into the way of the protest march, I felt rather safe. I mean, the feeling of being limited (curfew, staying out of certain areas, staying inside on Fridays etc.) can be really nerving, but you get into the habit of checking twitter for problematic streets/areas before going out and re-routing accordingly. I also felt less harrasment on the streets this time, although I know that most people would argue with me on that. They say that the comments towards women have turned more aggressive and maybe even somewhat violent.

Although I did feel quite safe, the people are very tense and nervous for obvious reasons, and eventually it will start wearing you out. So, I am happy to be back in Europe for now...
 
Kartane

Kartane

New member
Oh MizzNaaa - I am so sorry for all that is happening. It is brutal to be a reasonable, caring person in a world going mad around you. Here in the US, things are also super-polarized, but we do not have the terrible violence that erupts elsewhere. I wish there was something I could do to help you and the rest of the wonderful people of Egypt. You are in my thoughts and I am sending best hopes and wishes for the best of all possible outcomes and peace in Egypt... Please stay safe and strong. So many hugs -
 
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