When is it ok to go out on your own???

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Yshka

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Hadassah said:
If I want to see an umi, a camel, a four-point lock, etc - and teach can't produce, well, I just might walk outta class.
True! The teacher is supposed to know those things about the dance! That's why she is the teacher from student's point of view. If she is asked to show or explain and is not able to, one would start having doubts wether she is a good teacher.
At 9 months I think no one would be qualified to teach really..
 

Tenica

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Uuum, Ouch! As much as I love this forum, I can find it to be a little scary sometimes. There have been a couple of times when I read threads and I couldn´t help but think that a beginner here doesn´t stand a chance if she doesn´t have a pretty strong mind of her own and is secure.

That being said, you were absolutely within reason to STRONGLY disagree about her starting to teach after 9 months. That was the main objective to many of the responses; to disagree and hopefully steer her in a better direction. Buuuuut, I just think many of the approaches could have been less intimidating and "attack" like and more constructive.

I hope this helps one way or the other.
T
 

Yshka

New member
Dear Tenica,

I see why the responses could sometimes come across are 'intimidating', but then again this is a serious topic. Our responses were mainly constructive as far as I've seen, and were not meant to attack her. It's just that this is a very important part of dancing, it's the fase in which a strong foundation of movements and dance knowledge should be made, and that is serious business. Behaviour like this could cause damage to the image of the dance in that particular area and the dance community in general. If more beginners were to start teaching one might think anyone could declare themselves teacher after a few months of dancing.. Starting to teach at such a level of experience could also have the result of ruining the foundation of dance being created in the beginner fase for potential dancers.

On what you say about posts here seeming 'intimidating' to beginners sometimes, my take on this is that a beginner will certainly stand a chance here by being sincere and respectful to the dance. Even in cases like these I (and I think many others with me, but since I'm only able to say what I think of it myself I will) mainly try to give advice, in order to educate about and improve/protect the reputation of MED. If we come across as attacking or intimidating, it's just because we care for the dance sincerely.

I hope most people here will see that we are not about attacking beginners or being intimidating, but merely there to help, even though we are a little BOB sometimes:D

Yshka
 

Hadassah

New member
Hi Tenica - Yshka is right - we didn't want to scare elly-beth off, and I certainly hope that hasn't happened. I just think, as do many others on this forum, that if we want our Dance to be taken seriously and as a profession we need to have standards.

After all, if I had taken nine months of ballet, and then called myself a ballet instructor, who would take me seriously? I'm sure, as I have said, that Elly-beth is a great performer - I am envious of her fire prowess, as I haven't accomplished this yet, which was why I suggested her teaching fire technique.
 

Tenica

New member
Ladies, my purpose was not to put anyone in the position to feel that they had to explain themselves. You make VERY valid points and most of you gave very sound advice and arguments as to the correct way to proceed as a teacher and why!!! I just saw that there was emphasis put on some things or things brought up that were a little over the top. Not to mention the direct comments or things said to someone you don´t know very well. I feel that many people tend to get carried away in forums in general and don´t filter their repsonses and the strength of them as well as they would if they were face to face with the person. Sorry, but that´s how I see it.

I understand the need to protect and fight for a better and ethical "Belly Dance World." I´m right up there with all of you. Especially during this amazing time when the world is sitting up and taking notice of our beautiful art and the wonderful women that are apart of it, now more than ever. While at the same time, there are the very seedy, shady, unscrumpulous women that are chipping away, in every way possible at the beauty, authenticity and quality of this precious dance.

Buuuuut, when all is said and done; Belly Dancing is about liberation, self exploring and acceptance. Building confidence, excitement, happiness and all the joys and pains that come with being a part of a supportive and possitive community. Encourage wrong doing? NO, absolutely not. Suger coat what is obviously very questionable, unexceptable and just not right? NO, NO and NOOOOO!!!

I´ve lived my life learning from very wise people that if and when you are in the position to give advice, your opinion or correct someone for whatever:
1) It´s not what you say, but how you say it! and
2) Tough love is a very neccesary thing, but use it sparingly.

I hope that I don´t sound too preachy. I´m just very passionate about our BD world and the people in it, and want to see both well taken care of.

Your Sister in Dance,
Tenica
 

Moon

New member
Dear Tenica, I agraa with you.
I think no-one here tried to "attack" Elly-Beth, we only wanted to help her and protect the art of bellydance. Though it's clear Elly-Beth responded to the first replies she got, but not to the other ones. To be honest, I never se her on this forum. Maybe she still reads everything we write, or maybe we unpurposely did scare her away. That could mean she thinks we're mean or jealous or we feel threatened, and she doesn't want to listen to us any longer and has started teaching right now...
... That would be a pity...
 

Lydia

New member
when it is ok to go out on your own

Hi Tenica and ely beth,i don,t believe that anyone realy means to scare or has bad intentions on this forum..i was thinking that we all get on realy well...also i think that emails or things that you read and write not always come across how it ment to be and understoud wrong,i sometime,s have that when i read things....than when i go back and ask ,many times that person would say .i did not mean it that way.....if you feel bad Ely beth please read the replay that i send on this qeustion when you just posted it,......i am sure plenty others wil agree with me,because plenty people out there will just go and start to teach without even thinking if it would be the correct thing....please dont feel bad i still think you are sweet for asking this question, but i also hope that you take the advice from the dancers and teachers that are for a long time in this artform,and it is sometimes realy difficult because so many people are not taking it serieus and making a mokkery of it.....hope you keep on practising and become a great teacher one day ....huggies Lydia
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Buuuuut, when all is said and done; Belly Dancing is about liberation, self exploring and acceptance. Building confidence, excitement, happiness and all the joys and pains that come with being a part of a supportive and possitive community.

Your Sister in Dance,
Tenica
Dear Tenica,
I am sorry, but the above is not what "belly dance is all about". Liberation and all the rest is a possible side effect of studying the dance, but not the purpose or meaning of the dance. Belly dance is, to quote from my introductory literature, "an authentic ethnic dance in movement and spirit. The dance and dancer are the physical manifestation of and visual compliment to the exotic music they accompany. Like ballet, the dance has precise movement based on root concepts. The dancer enjoys a full range of personal expression within the dance".

Any teacher should be able to explain to the student about the dance without making it about the dancer's needs, but about the dance itself. This dance is not meant as a form of therapy, but sometimes, if we are fortunate, the dance does help us to build strengths and character. I have met people for whom the dance has done all kinds of wonders, myself included.This, however, is a side effect and not meant to be the ultimate outcome of our dance endeavours.

All of the people here have made more than valid points about not teaching (or for that matter, performing in a professional venue) before one is prepared to do so. As we can all see by some of the horrendous stuff going on out there in the name of "belly dance", people need to have some years and some experience in the dance to be competant to teach.

Regards,
A'isha
 

Hadassah

New member
Thank you, A'isha. I guess Elly-beth was perhaps misled by her teacher in many ways, and is not totally to blame here. After all, after one lesson, her teacher had moved her up to "advanced", which would have done a lot for leading her to believe she was ready to teach.

Personally, I think one class is too early to assess a student's ability. I had had over a year of Neena and Veena, Jillina and other DVD experience, knew some basic moves (unpolished though, especially for Egyptian style), and it still took me almost six months to move up to intermediate.

The only reason my teacher (with 28 years exp) is allowing me to perform professionally now is because she knows she can trust me to
1. Not undercut her
2.Not take gigs without her permission
3. Not do anything to compromise her reputation and teaching

Also, I work HARD. I want this more than I've ever wanted anything in my life, and my teacher knows this. She can see my dedication, and loves to challenge me. So far, I've risen to the occasion. And I've honestly tried to honor her and this beautiful Dance by upholding the ethics, style and elegance which she has passed on to me.
 

elly-beth

New member
Dear Ladies All,
My gratitude for taking the time you all have spent... I must admit I was terrified by the initial response,my gut reaction was to get out of the whole game very fast..... But I intend to dance and I know that I put myself up for scrutiny when I started the thread and I would be a coward not to see it through...Again I am new to this and dont know If I am to respond to all posts I hope I am not..... Massive Apreaciation To Salome....You are right in saying that with out skill but most of all without knowledge of technique one can not even begin to contemplate teaching.......
I think you will be all glad to hear that I AM NOT running any bellydance classes but as I am skint I am Focusing on Tribal Fire Dancing and have found much to my plesent suprise I can teach my skill to a group of people and even better they can learn it...... YIPPEE....
My teacher helped me lick my wounds and has introduced me to different academies to help me further my studies........Mouse would Know living in regional AUSTRALIA it is not that easy to get about and do all the study we may want too......butt all excuses aside..... I was scared but now i am not.....I understand that the context gets lost in translation..... I appreaciate the time everbody spent and I hope to read more from you all ((not in this thread another will be fine))) I enjoy alll of your input to EVERYBODIES ?????'s and most of all I WANT TO DANCE....nothing but two amputated legs can stop me doing that and even then I will have two pefectly good arms that i can use..... Thank you all respectfully Elly-beth...
 

Moon

New member
Dear Elly-Beth,
Good to have you back! :) I think you've made the right decision. Go girl!
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Teaching, etc.

Dear Elly-Beth,
Thank you for having the integrity, courage, and most of all the true love of the dance, enough NOT to try to teach it until you gain some experience. This is the meaning of putting the art form before the ego.
Regards,
A'isha
 
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chryssanthi sahar

New member
Dear Elly-Beth

I also appreciate very much, that you gave up your plans of teaching belly dance classes. I'm sure, you will have the possibility to do this, when the right time comes :)
I wish you much luck with your Tribal Fire Dancing teaching! By the way, can you tell us something about this style? To be honest, I don't know much about it, but I would like to know.
 

Hadassah

New member
Hi, Elly-beth, sorry we seemed so wrathful - I'm glad you're teaching your fire technique. Best wishes, and glad to see you back here.
 

elly-beth

New member
I would be Glad to tell you about fire dancing...First of all dont wear too much gauze ....I have caught on fire too many times to try dancing in that style of costume..:eek: It is very bassy and leg heavy but the best music has trills running over the top to accentuate the arm movements..it is similar to using a cane only heavier and with more movement.:D
you need a strong hand to control the stick as you roll it through your fingers and a flexible wrist to maintain the twirls.....
and you let your body flow around the stick at the same time making it look like the fire is flowing around you.... It is so feirce having the roar of flame whipping around your head and like belly dance definitly NOT for begginners... I twirled for a year before I even lit the stick and it was five before i breathed fire (Dont try this at home the scars last forever) I have a copy of a book around here will work out how to get it on the pute for you:confused:
 

Yshka

New member
Dear Elly-Beth, I'm glad you're back. I agree with the ladies above that it is very courageous of you to respond and not giving up. It's is very wise of you to let go of bellydance-teaching until you are ready. I'm glad to hear you did.

This fire dancing thing sounds dangerous, but really amazing! I would also love to see. Any clips? And do you really breathe fire too? I've seen that sometimes, it looks so cool!
Hearing from your story it sounds like you're a very experienced and passionate firedancer, and that is exactly what you should teach IMO if you feel like teaching. Seems to me you'll make a very good fire dance teacher:)

Keep at it and happy dancing,

Iris
 

Tenica

New member
Hello Elly-Beth

I was so happy to find you here again with a positive and encouraged attitude.

One door closed, but another opened and I´m sure that it was the right one. :)

I wish you lots of luck and look forward to seeing you around the belly dance world.

Sending lots of positive energy your way,
Tenica
 

Alaya

New member
Hi All, I just found this thread. But I think you are realy brave elly-beth.You will be able to teach in no time.

I wanted to shear what I found out some time ego.I was haveing workshops with Jasmin Mozulum one of the best dancers in Poland and she said that sometime ego she had 10 days workshops 2 (1 for beginers and 1 for advance) classes in a day, 2 girls enrol and attened bought classes. After the workshops they came back to their home town and have opened a bellydance school. How can you open a bellydance school after 10days of training? Meybe you can tell me if that is posible to become a teacher after 10 days of practicing?
Love, Alaya
 
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