Why do males dance?

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charity

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my opinion on male belly dancers, the costumes yes need addressing, i think if a woman is expected to uphold cultural traditions than a man must. but then again, modern costume ideas are all derived from a fantasy/hollywood portrayal which is mostly inaccurate. so how is any of it all too accurate?

and as far as technicalities of dance, lets face it- a man well-trained usually does the same moves better than a woman. they appear more relaxed and more controlled.

and why a man belly dances? [edit : edited insensitive use of words, very juvenile of me] just a ridiculous question. why dont you just ask him if he's gay? perhaps its equally as offensive and pointless imo.


P.S.
confused as to the arabic men/homophobe concept. are these arab men in america perhaps? or this is just in regards to men dancing? who confessed this about being homophobe? or is it an assumption, simple observation in the middle east would suggest otherwise or would you know?

perhaps you know more than me from experience. not trying to sound confrontational but i am seeking clarification to the statement. isnt such a thing always stereotypical and a generalization to say that on behalf of a few arabs that you may know that most arab men are homophobes?
 
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Aisha Azar

New member
Males

my opinion on male belly dancers, the costumes yes need addressing, i think if a woman is expected to uphold cultural traditions than a man must. but then again, modern costume ideas are all derived from a fantasy/hollywood portrayal which is mostly inaccurate. so how is any of it all too accurate?

and as far as technicalities of dance, lets face it- a man well-trained usually does the same moves better than a woman. they appear more relaxed and more controlled.

and why a man belly dances? just a dumb ass question. why dont you just ask him if he's gay? perhaps its equally as offensive and pointless imo.


P.S.
confused as to the arabic men/homophobe concept. are these arab men in america perhaps? or this is just in regards to men dancing? who confessed this about being homophobe? or is it an assumption, simple observation in the middle east would suggest otherwise or would you know?

perhaps you know more than me from experience. not trying to sound confrontational but i am seeking clarification to the statement. isnt such a thing always stereotypical and a generalization to say that on behalf of a few arabs that you may know that most arab men are homophobes?

Dear Charity,
First, the costume that people keep referring to as inspired by Hollywood has been around as long as belly dance has been a dance. It IS the traditional costume style. Gelebiyahs and Assuit and other national costume elements were used in folkloric dance, and only leter were sometimes used in belly dance, which is barely 100 years old. However, these days, the two piece bra/belt with full circle skirt and veil ensemble is almost passe, a product of the 60s and 70s more than anything else. Is not really so much the fashion as it once was. Belly dance costumes coming out of Egypt and Turkey are now often dresses, or pants, or shorts, or short skirts and crop tops, etc. The dance fashions change just as much as clothing fashions do.
While I do not believe that nonsense about men doing the dance techincally better than women, I do believe they can do the movements just as well, though some can not really grasp the spirit of the dance as easily.
No, it is not Arab Americans alone that feel that homophobic thing; it is Arabs everywhere. I would venture to say that non-Arab Moslems as well, react the same way. I know it is true becuase I have spoken with probably hundreds of Arabs from various countries in the last 33 years about this issue. Islam has even deeper gender divisions than does Christianity. Summerdance is an Arab and has verified the same. Donya lives in Egypt and has had the same experience. Homophobia is a problem in the Middle East, believe me, and that attitude extends to dance, where even women are looked down on for such behaviors.
Regards,
A'isha
 
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Outi

New member
If I'm correct in Egypt being a gay is illegal. There is a gay culture, but it's really underground. Police often closes places where they spend time, like cafes or nightclubs.

Men, who dance, are viewed as gays. Folkloric dancers are an exception. This can be one reason that many Egyptian male teachers don't perform other than folkloric dances. For example I never seen Yousry Sarif perform anything else, even though he teaches everything.
 

Recnadocir

New member
When we (men) belly dance, we finally get to...
Make it light
Make it bright
Make it...oh, what's that word I'm looking for...?;)
 

summerdance

New member
Men Belly Dancers

Hi charity,
what you're hearing from A'isha is 100% true. Homophobia is huge in the Middle East. It is not at all accepted, Particularly where it comes to gay guys. Arab men are taught from birth to be masculine. Anything at all that is considered a female job.attribute, look or emotion is both vilified and advised against in a males. Some arab countries actually submit their male relatives (who are susbected of homosexuality) to mental treatment.
Donia, you are right, nightclubs, parties where homosexuals are thought to be gathered are often raided by the police in Egypt.
Charity sterotypes are based in truth. This one is 100% true!

Best Wishes!
 

Dev

New member
Hi charity,
what you're hearing from A'isha is 100% true. Homophobia is huge in the Middle East. It is not at all accepted, Particularly where it comes to gay guys. Arab men are taught from birth to be masculine. Anything at all that is considered a female job.attribute, look or emotion is both vilified and advised against in a males. Some arab countries actually submit their male relatives (who are susbected of homosexuality) to mental treatment.
Donia, you are right, nightclubs, parties where homosexuals are thought to be gathered are often raided by the police in Egypt.
Charity sterotypes are based in truth. This one is 100% true!

Best Wishes!
Dear Summerdance...
Homophobia exists everywhere, Gay men/women are killed or abused everywhere in this world ,I believe there are Christian groups in Western countries where they think homosexuality is a sin or mental problem. In the middle East the situation is more volatile as the middle eastern men somehow have to prove that they are masculine, Its the way their culture works. But I would say Gay men and gay intimacy exists and in big groups in some Arab countries. I heared its much easier to get a man for sex than a women there.
If you check Amnesty International reports you will see almost everywhere in this world minority groups suffer a lot. The following pictures are of two Iranian boys 18 and 19yrs who were hanged last year because they were caught having a sexual affair. I dread to think what a gay mans life would be like in the Middle east.
http://www.farisqc.observationdeck.org/farisqc_images/hanging.jpg
http://myrtus.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/gayhanging.jpg
 
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Recnadocir

New member
Apparently the Iranian government claims that the two young men being executed in the photo were guilty of sexually assaulting a 13 year old at knifepoint. Since I am sure that the just and noble government of Iran would never lie and fabricate crimes or evidence, and since we know that gays are completely depraved individuals and cannot control their sexual urges, we can assume that these young men are being legally executed.
 

Dev

New member
Ricco the two guys in the photos were executed for the "knife point " reason and absolutely legal. Actually they had 3 option to choose from,
1.Throw them from the tallest building in the town.
2.Stone to death
3.Hang them in a public place.
 

Recnadocir

New member
But Dipali, the question is not whether under Iranian law, rape of a minor at knifepoint is a capital crime, or whether this is the stated reason for their death sentence. The real question is, would the Iranian government fabricate criminal accusations and evidence, and if so, why? :think:
 

Dev

New member
But Dipali, the question is not whether under Iranian law, rape of a minor at knifepoint is a capital crime, or whether this is the stated reason for their death sentence. The real question is, would the Iranian government fabricate criminal accusations and evidence, and if so, why? :think:
Why not , quite a few Goverments have lied or moved the truth a bit :shok: Remember the weapons of mass distruction or throwing babies in the ocean (that was from Australia), In general we all know what maybe happening in Iran, Recently they killed another 14 year old girl for having a sexual relationship with her father, Although later it was found the girl was only 14. The father got a few lashes and the daughter got hanged in the street. To justify killing you can come up with any idea if you want to. recently some british marine personnel were captured and if you witnessed the statements and video footage from iran:rolleyes: it doesent leave much more to realize the type of institutions / government your dealing with. i think we should all cheer our diplomats for trying to deal with these type of governments.:pray:
 

Recnadocir

New member
Right on Dipali and Amulya! In fact, I think it's time we opened up Mt. Rushmore and sent someone to pay them a little visit...
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Homophobia

Dear Rico and Group,
Before we go around solving everyone else's problems, we had better deal with our own as far as homophobia goes. I come from the land of the brave and the free, where we have the citizenry beating people to death, or tying them to a fence with barbed wire for being gay. Yeah, nice, big difference between us and Iran in that capacity. The government here also will not let you serve in the military or get marrried to your life partner, or be on your same sex partner's insurance, or be there at deathbed of the person who means the most to you in the world, if you are not married or related by blood. You all can just knock it off with the holier than thou attitude until we in this country, where things are supposed to be so wonderful, before you get critical of anyone else. Fix it here, then worry about Iran.
A'isha
 
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sultan

New member
The real question is, would the Iranian government fabricate criminal accusations and evidence, and if so, why?


I have to agree with A'isha in that we need not trouble ourselves too much over questions like those above. After all, the world is far more concerned over our own government's fabrication of alleged sightings of WMD that never existed except in the warped minds of war profiteers and those who seek to subvert world peace.
 

Recnadocir

New member
Well, we are Team America, and we are the World Police!
America! _______yeah!
Whatcha gonna do, when we come for you!

Hey, ever notice how when those extremists are executing someone, they always cover their faces? Just like the Ku Klux Klan! Yippee!
 
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summerdance

New member
Men dancers

Dear Summerdance...
Homophobia exists everywhere, Gay men/women are killed or abused everywhere in this world ,I believe there are Christian groups in Western countries where they think homosexuality is a sin or mental problem. In the middle East the situation is more volatile as the middle eastern men somehow have to prove that they are masculine, Its the way their culture works. But I would say Gay men and gay intimacy exists and in big groups in some Arab countries. I heared its much easier to get a man for sex than a women there.
If you check Amnesty International reports you will see almost everywhere in this world minority groups suffer a lot. The following pictures are of two Iranian boys 18 and 19yrs who were hanged last year because they were caught having a sexual affair. I dread to think what a gay mans life would be like in the Middle east.
http://www.farisqc.observationdeck.org/farisqc_images/hanging.jpg
http://myrtus.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/gayhanging.jpg
Dear Dipali,

I agree with that homosexuals are persecuted everywhere. In M. E. countries men are expected to be men and have sex with women. however, this does not mean that they suspect every male dancer of being gay. It's not accepted simply on the grounds that that is a womanly art form and men performing it( with exceptions being made for men who join a dancer on the floor with swords, canes etc as a Taheya(Greeting)

As to the stories out of Iran, I have not heard, but can believe anything of this government. By the way we cannot speak of Iran as an arab government. Iran is persian and the culture and language and even religion is different from actual arab countries. The religion is Shiite and even fundamental at that. they have bastardised one of them most tolerant and loving religions in the world. So please lets not lump all arab countries with Iran. That being said, yes, intolerance is everywhere and in the arab world, it is socially acceptable to be homophobic and look at gays as mentally ill and abnormal.

I agree with A'isha, before we send another army to another country to solve the world's problems, let's deal with theis country first.
 

charity

New member
a'isha

i had imagined i would get reamed with insult for my post. thank you for answering my question so honestly.
 

Tarik Sultan

New member
Bullshit alert! Bullshit allert!:shok:

Male dancers, homophobia, gay sex...Do I want to get into this:think: Why the hell not!

Okay, so here's the deal. When it comes to dancing socially, for the most part there is no stigma. For people who live in the upper classes whose world view is more western, this is sometimes not the case. Many of these people view men who do any type of dancing as queer.

Where things get sticky is when it comes to the issue of dancing Oriental on stage. Its seen as woman's work and therefore, unsutable for a man. Which means the real issue here is MISOGENY, (spelling? oh well you know what I mean), yep that bitch we all love to hate, 'cause she hates women! Most people will automatically assume a guy who dances is gay, because they ignorantly think gay men want to be women. Therefore, if a guy is doing woman's work, he must want to be a woman. Just for the record, dancing is not the only thing that will brand a guy gay. 1. Wearing gold, 2. wearing shorts, 3. long hair, 4. getting a tatoo, 5. Not being married by a certain age, in fact doing anything out of "the norm".

This is why most male dancers tend to restrict themselves to doing Theater dance, (that shit ai'nt folklore and I wish people would stop calling it that...but that's another issue;) ). Funny thing is from my experience some of the biggest queens are in fact the so called Folk dancers. I know from one dancer, who performed in one of the well known troups, that rich men would visit the dancers backstage or after the show to make "appointments". So while the official view is that "folk Danceing" is tolerated, they are assumed to be available, or at least suspect.

There is no such thing as a gay lifestyle as we know it in the west, but that does not mean that there is no such thing as gay, or homosexual activity. Its there just as much as it is anywhere else. Everyone is expected to get married. It has nothing to do with love and affection, but social and familial duty. Just because a man is married, does not mean that he is faithful. Having a wife does not mean that he will not have relations with other women, or men, if that's his taste, on the side. However, its not the kind of thing they go shouting from the highest mountains. They are very discreat. Just as here in the USA, the vast majority of men who engage in same sex relations, are men who in fact live lives that on the surface are heterosexual.

As far as how repressive the governments are, on paper its illegal. How hard it is repressed depends on the country. I've been told that in the gulf, like Saudia people only get arrested if they piss of the wrong person. Mostly foriegners or people who are lower class are the most vulnerable to this. So my guess is those kids in Iran pissed off the wrong people because believe me there is plenty gay sex going on over there. For god sakes, they don't have girlfriends. What happens here in all male boarding schools and prisons? However, most homosexual activity, there, like here, does not mean that the individual has a gay identity, just like a guy who comes out of jail, they resume a heterosexual lifestyle one given the opportunity to do so. If you really want to know what's going on, just take the blinders off and take a good hard look at our society. People are all the same emotionally, what you see in Arabs is just a reflection of what we are also guilty of.

I know the tone of this post may seem...hostile and I'm sorry if I've offended anyone. Its just that I'm getting less and less tolerant of hypocricy and attempts at simplistic classifications that have nothing to do with truth, reality or logic. Okay, my brain, (as you can probably tell by the misspellings and typos), is turning to jelly. Speak later.

A'isha do I qualify for my BOB teeshirt, yet? I am trying;)
 
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