workshop for a bachelorette party

da Sage

da Sage

New member
I actually haven't watched the video myself, but Neon's Bellydance Party DVD might be a good option for this situation.
Amazon.com: Belly Dance Party: Bellydance combinations you can learn tonight!: Neon: Movies & TV


I personally found BellyQueen's DVD to be very accessible for beginners (which is what I was, when I last watched it).
Amazon.com: Bellydance Jam With Bellyqueen: Amar Gamal, Kaeshi Chai, David Chai: Movies & TV

I imagine either would go great with wine, before hitting the clubs (with a designated driver, of course).
 
Amulya

Amulya

Moderator
Gia al Qamar said:
I am ALWAYS awed when I hear that a client doesn't have the money for entertainment, but there always seems to be enough $$$ for food, drinks, gifts and other assorted 'things'.
Professional dancers and teachers will NEVER be able to make a living and our community as a whole will never gain respect when non-pros offer to step in and do last minute, low paying or NO paying jobs.
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Yes so true, you got to ask money for it and not do it for free. I really wonder what it is that people have money for food, but not for the dancer :shok:.
What really angers me is that other entertainers get hired and people do not think the money they ask is too much.

In my countless amounts of workshops I have taught, I did offer food: but at an extra price on top of the price for the workshop. And of course making profit on the food as well, because that also takes up time to buy and prepare and while they eat it takes up my time.

My first teacher had a really good tip for beginning teachers/performers: do not go underneath the price of what a professional dancer asks. When I started out I took up that advise and it worked out for the better.

That was my wisenose story ;)
 
Reen.Blom

Reen.Blom

New member
Come on folks, ita a bachelorette party????

I mean the lady has the whole wedding to pay for, so the girly party is probably not a high budget thing? If you cant afford the pro, why not ask a friend?

Let professionals dance at 5 star hotels not a gals night out.

Just as well as I might get a music academy student to come and play violin ( they are stunning!!!) yet I can AFFORD to pay his charges and its extra cash for him(better than playing in the street), and leave the symphonic ocherstra for the opera house. :p
 
da Sage

da Sage

New member
At one bachelorette party I went to, we watched "Sex in the City" on DVD and painted our nails. That was it for entertainment (besides opening the gifts)! I don't even remember the food, I presume there was some....
 
Shanazel

Shanazel

Moderator
Just as well as I might get a music academy student to come and play violin ( they are stunning!!!) yet I can AFFORD to pay his charges and its extra cash for him(better than playing in the street), and leave the symphonic ocherstra for the opera house. :p
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Music academy students are paid musician scale wages when playing regular orchestra gigs, private performances, or in combos for weddings, etc, as well as being paid for your hypothetical situation. Too many dancers have heard, "Just think of the great exposure you'll get by dancing at my gig for free."

The point here is that it is unfair to expect performers to perform just for the joy of doing it. When you ask a friend to provide entertainment and the friend is just a casual student of belly dance, violin, etc., then you'll likely get what you (don't) pay for. And it is unfair to expect an unexperienced teacher to prepare a two hour workshop, much less on a couple days notice.
 
Yshka

Yshka

New member
Dear Gia and Shanazel, very well put!!

Dear Hajar, it might be the laguage barrier, but I don't particularly like the wise-nose comment since it seems people here were all just trying to help and answer your questions and reacting this way makes me think maybe you don't want honest responses? I might be wrong though, but calling experienced dancers wise-noses doesn't usually work in your advantage.

Truth is IMHO that if you didn't know what to do and had all the questions you had, I think it would have been wise to pass on the workshop to somebody who does, or consult with your own teacher about how to do this, since she might be the right person to consult (also I wouldn't imagine just doing any gig without my teacher/mentor knowing because there's always some valuable pointersand advice to get from one's teacher, but I dont know how this works for other dancers though), or just not do it.

It might be all fun and a nice thing for a friend and I think it's really very nice of you to accept, but planning a 2 hour workshop when you don't even know where to start makes both you and the dance not look very good.
Even a bachelorette party is a gig that people usually pay for, which should be done by a dancer who knows what she is doing and has a clear idea of what she is charging and giving.

Anyhow, I hope it turned out alright and that your friends had a fun time, but I also hope you'd consider the things mentioned in this thread if you are asked something similar again or at least consult with a teacher, since it can only help you.;)
 
da Sage

da Sage

New member
Hi Hajar,

I'm curious how the party went. I always get a lot stressed out when I help teach (even with guidance from 30+ year dancer), so I understand feeling stressed out when asked suddenly to teach on your own. :)
 
Gia al Qamar

Gia al Qamar

New member
Reen.Blom said:
Come on folks, ita a bachelorette party????

I mean the lady has the whole wedding to pay for, so the girly party is probably not a high budget thing? If you cant afford the pro, why not ask a friend?
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If you can't afford it...you don't buy it.
Feigning empty pockets is no excuse to 'ask a friend' and anyone who can't 'afford' to have entertainment at their party...shouldn't.
I dance for friends, students and family and I always get paid. Always. Do you ask your friend who is married to a doctor to treat you for free? Car mechanic friend...does he fix your car for free?
Professionals don't do this as a lark, we make a living dancing and educating. For a student or hobbyist to say 'sure, I can do it for free' spits in the face of pros everywhere AND it gives the general public the notion that 'anyone' can belly dance with no training and no level of expertise...which...in turn...makes it difficult for pros and hobbyists to continue to enjoy their art with the support of their family, friends, clients etc because they've 'seen' belly dance murdered at the hands of someone with no training and no business dancing, teaching or educating.
Sorry...if I couldn't afford entertainment, I wouldn't substitute a low-end copy as a compromise.
 
H

Hajar

New member
da Sage said:
Hi Hajar,

I'm curious how the party went. I always get a lot stressed out when I help teach (even with guidance from 30+ year dancer), so I understand feeling stressed out when asked suddenly to teach on your own. :)
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Hii, it went very well actually..
there were ten ladies in a small livingroom and my friend and i came in with a choregraphed dance...then i took the bride to be and gave her some bellydanceclothing to wear.
My friend first told about the history of bellydance and i started telling then about the posture of a bellydancer and started to show some movements to get acquainted with bellydance. after an hour there was a little break with moroccan tea and cookies and after that we got to stand in circle and everyone danced the moves they 'learned' .
They had a lot of fun and that is important..
 
da Sage

da Sage

New member
Hajar said:
Hii, it went very well actually..
there were ten ladies in a small livingroom and my friend and i came in with a choregraphed dance...then i took the bride to be and gave her some bellydanceclothing to wear.
My friend first told about the history of bellydance and i started telling then about the posture of a bellydancer and started to show some movements to get acquainted with bellydance. after an hour there was a little break with moroccan tea and cookies and after that we got to stand in circle and everyone danced the moves they 'learned' .
They had a lot of fun and that is important..
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That sounds great! The last non-dancer group I worked with, some people just wanted to watch...I think that really put additional pressure on the ladies who were participating. It sounds like you had a good group and a successful party!
 
Reen.Blom

Reen.Blom

New member
Shanazel said:
Music academy students are paid musician scale wages when playing regular orchestra gigs, private performances, or in combos for weddings, etc, as well as being paid for your hypothetical situation. Too many dancers have heard, "Just think of the great exposure you'll get by dancing at my gig for free."

The point here is that it is unfair to expect performers to perform just for the joy of doing it. When you ask a friend to provide entertainment and the friend is just a casual student of belly dance, violin, etc., then you'll likely get what you (don't) pay for. And it is unfair to expect an unexperienced teacher to prepare a two hour workshop, much less on a couple days notice.
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I guess that depends on the country. Music students where are i come from do NOT charge pro prices . Ans yes those I came across were at times better than pro's because they still have that enthusiasm that many pro's lost with years of doing the same thing, I would say less commercial.

Sorry Gia I have to disagree with you on this one. Many times i have done my friends favours, not charging them for services, and yes I did the job to the top of my abilities and gained friendships that last through years and distances. Same way friends have done me favours in their lines of work/art in return. Thank Heaves not everything is counted in money.;)

And yes, if I cant afford a designer dress, I might just buy a cheap one at supermarket. ;)

I really enjoy when people tell what other should or should not do or buy.

I believe it would be silly to hire a 5 star dancer for an informal party when you can get a student with lots of enthusiasm, as the above exaple proves. Cos this is exactly what I would do.

Agree with you Yshka on wisenose comment... LOL (its actually funny, why nose anyways?)

Yet I just get a distinct feeling that this forum can be intimidating for newbies or people just seeing advice. Instead of getting help on HOW to do it, you will get told that you should not be doing it, and your friend should not have asked you in the first place. Not my definition of friendly. Sorry.
 
Aniseteph

Aniseteph

New member
Money issues aside, in this country a music student at academy level is not a fair comparison with the average casual belly dance student. Unless things have dumbed right down they have years of serious study and practice behind them and a good understanding of their craft.

On the non-pro issue: if you are just a student and everyone involved knows it and you are just doing a party piece for your mates at an informal party that you'd be at anyway, and you have a bop to some ME music and show people a few moves... well I don't think that's so bad. I'd feel a bit prissy to say no just because I would be undercutting a pro, or misrepresenting the dance. Just be honest about what you are and are not, because people who've never seen good belly dancing are not going to be able to put you in context.

Like having Uncle Bob to play a few tunes on the piano at a family party - he isn't undercutting, and you wouldn't be hiring a pianist if he wasn't there. At very informal parties you wouldn't be hiring a pro if your mate wouldn't do her belly dance turn, you'd just be doing something else.

IMO you cross the line when you don't have personal connections with the party and it turns into your being the entertainment-on-the-cheap rather than a guest doing her party piece. For me it comes down to whether you are there as The Belly Dancer, or as yourself, if that makes sense.
 
Gia al Qamar

Gia al Qamar

New member
Aniseteph said:
Money issues aside, in this country a music student at academy level is not a fair comparison with the average casual belly dance student. Unless things have dumbed right down they have years of serious study and practice behind them and a good understanding of their craft.

On the non-pro issue: if you are just a student and everyone involved knows it and you are just doing a party piece for your mates at an informal party that you'd be at anyway, and you have a bop to some ME music and show people a few moves... well I don't think that's so bad. I'd feel a bit prissy to say no just because I would be undercutting a pro, or misrepresenting the dance. Just be honest about what you are and are not, because people who've never seen good belly dancing are not going to be able to put you in context.

Like having Uncle Bob to play a few tunes on the piano at a family party - he isn't undercutting, and you wouldn't be hiring a pianist if he wasn't there. At very informal parties you wouldn't be hiring a pro if your mate wouldn't do her belly dance turn, you'd just be doing something else.

IMO you cross the line when you don't have personal connections with the party and it turns into your being the entertainment-on-the-cheap rather than a guest doing her party piece. For me it comes down to whether you are there as The Belly Dancer, or as yourself, if that makes sense.
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Total sense...and nicely put!!
 
Shanazel

Shanazel

Moderator
Wrong, perhaps, but TOTALLY loved!
 
Amulya

Amulya

Moderator
Reen.Blom said:
Yet I just get a distinct feeling that this forum can be intimidating for newbies or people just seeing advice. Instead of getting help on HOW to do it, you will get told that you should not be doing it, and your friend should not have asked you in the first place. Not my definition of friendly. Sorry.
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I do feel we have to be friendly to newbies and explain things in a proper way, not intimidating them. Sometimes it is hard to find information for them and not all teachers provide proper info.
It is better to provide info than scaring someone away. How is that person going to learn new things that will help her?

Hajar, here is a nice thread:

http://www.bellydanceforums.net/performance/12658-stage-performance-etiquette.html

It's for performances, but it might give some handy tips that new dancers don't always come across.

And Hajar, I'm happy to hear it worked out well :)
 
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