Your first class,as a male, what was it like ?

[khanjar]

It's the music !

Yesterday I was playing a CD of ME music when my pal dropped around for a chat, so not to be rude, I turned the music down, so it was there, but not obtrusive to conversation. What was interesting for me to see, was my pal was swaying from side to side, swaying hips. Although we were just chatting, his subconscious had obviously picked up the music and his body was responding to it, he was doing vague belly dance moves.

I made my pal aware of what he was doing, and he replied, ' yes, the music is good, it just feels natural and nice to move to '. My pal is not a dancer, in fact he is very self conscious and the thought of attending a dance class where the majority are female, would having running screaming for the hills, like no way.

Just to make it clear here, my pal is straight but open minded. I also am straight but open minded, we have a friendship where we totally trust each other and help each other where and when we can. When my pal has a worry with his relationship, I get to know and offer another view. His girlfriend knows he talks with me, but she knows and trusts me. When I have the black dog, he helps me. I have the ability to be very analytical, it is one of my strengths and I can analyse both thought and feeling.

So, whether this dance is masculine or feminine, a combination of the two or something completely different, I believe it is the music which defines the movement we do, that which we call dance.

 

[AngelaJP]

He was lovely and brilliant; I had so much fun and learnt a lot. I'm sorry you weren't able to get there. I can't say I felt there was any major difference apart from personality. He was lots of fun and made us all relax. He also made us feel good about being women and did kind of encourage us to have attitude in our movement. Kind of made us open up more and think about our genral prescence when performing. I think that was the only difference maybe prehaps as an all women class we kind of overlook these elements, take our feminity for granted. However this could just be his teaching style and nothing to do with his gender. I need to have more male teachers to truly know lol

Sita, your experience with him sounded like a lot of fun! I'm sooooo curious now! I wonder if I can have BD classes once in a while with a man here. Heard there's one around in another school/gym but the 2 girls I talked with, didn't like his dancing style. I forgot to ask why.

Maybe if it was Zorba, Tarik Sultan, Khanjar, ShiroiOji and our other BD bros here.... :clap: I wish you guys would reply to that thread "How is your bellydance class like" in the "instructors and students" forum. Already have Zorba's fun and interesting style there.

 

[SidraK]

I've enjoyed taking workshops with a Victoria, BC-based male instructor Nath Keo. He's a very engaging teacher and spends quite a bit of time, in a folkloric session especially, discussing how men's dance forms differ from women's.

He is also trained in Cambodian classical dance and does some very interesting fusion.

 

[jenc]

Relly sorry I missed Jim Boz - I am just not getting enough dancing at the moment

 

[AngelaJP]

I've enjoyed taking workshops with a Victoria, BC-based male instructor Nath Keo. He's a very engaging teacher and spends quite a bit of time, in a folkloric session especially, discussing how men's dance forms differ from women's.

Hi Sidra! Hope you can tell us what Nath Keo said about the differences of men and women's dance forms. I'm curious

Cheers!
Angela

 

[SidraK]

Oh, Angela! That would mean finding my notes which is frequently impossible mere weeks after a workshop, much less a full year

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Yesterday I was playing a CD of ME music when my pal dropped around for a chat, so not to be rude, I turned the music down, so it was there, but not obtrusive to conversation. What was interesting for me to see, was my pal was swaying from side to side, swaying hips. Although we were just chatting, his subconscious had obviously picked up the music and his body was responding to it, he was doing vague belly dance moves.

I made my pal aware of what he was doing, and he replied, ' yes, the music is good, it just feels natural and nice to move to '. My pal is not a dancer, in fact he is very self conscious and the thought of attending a dance class where the majority are female, would having running screaming for the hills, like no way.

Just to make it clear here, my pal is straight but open minded. I also am straight but open minded, we have a friendship where we totally trust each other and help each other where and when we can. When my pal has a worry with his relationship, I get to know and offer another view. His girlfriend knows he talks with me, but she knows and trusts me. When I have the black dog, he helps me. I have the ability to be very analytical, it is one of my strengths and I can analyse both thought and feeling.

So, whether this dance is masculine or feminine, a combination of the two or something completely different, I believe it is the music which defines the movement we do, that which we call dance.

Pretty much agrees with what my Egyptian buddy says. You have to move that way because that's what the music makes you do. Masculine, feminine, who cares. Whatever energy is there is there, no matter what name you want to put to it. The important thing is that you open yourself to the music and let it express itself through your movements.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Another time, I was approached by several guys after a performance, apparently gay themselves (I don't have good "gaydar"),

Next time read the label. Its the first thing listed right after MADE IN CHINA.

 

[Zorba]

Pretty much agrees with what my Egyptian buddy says. You have to move that way because that's what the music makes you do. Masculine, feminine, who cares. Whatever energy is there is there, no matter what name you want to put to it. The important thing is that you open yourself to the music and let it express itself through your movements.

Tarik, you're starting to sound like me - you're scaring me!

Now about that skirt dance...

 

[Zorba]

Next time read the label. Its the first thing listed right after MADE IN CHINA.

Yea, but the label was in Chinese!

 

[Pirika Repun]

Next time read the label. Its the first thing listed right after MADE IN CHINA.

Zorba said: Yea, but the label was in Chinese!

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Hey if gay men come up to you it's compliment guys! Seriously, my gay friends told me that! Many gay people love beautiful things, so if they came to you and said good thing, it's compliment. But I don't know if they want more or not, :think: so you guys figure out....

One of my best friends who is straigt guy has "gay magnet" many gay guys attract to him. We don't know why:think: Maybe he has nice dreads locks? He doesn't look "pretty boy" but still many gay guys attract to him.... Maybe you guys have "gay magnet" too

 

[Zorba]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Hey if gay men come up to you it's compliment guys! Seriously, my gay friends told me that! Many gay people love beautiful things, so if they came to you and said good thing, it's compliment. But I don't know if they want more or not, :think: so you guys figure out....

You're right - and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. A compliment is a compliment.

 

[AngelaJP]

Oh, Angela! That would mean finding my notes which is frequently impossible mere weeks after a workshop, much less a full year

Oh noooo... I know it would be daunting scouring thru all those notes from long ago. I do that sometimes with my students' (special needs) records and seminars and it gives me a headache!

 

[SidraK]

I checked Nath's website as well and he has nothing posted online! bad instructor! bad! :lol:

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Tarik, you're starting to sound like me - you're scaring me!

Now about that skirt dance...

Only if its a Turkish Kochek. Now that is authentic Middle Eastern men's skirt dance. Warning, don't get lost in youtube land, but there are literally thousands of these clips now. When I wrote my article Oriental Dance isn't just for women, no one knew such a thing existed. Even most Turks I knew knew nothing about it and thought it was a dead tradition from the Ottoman times and what information there was about it was the typical stereotype of "men imitating women's dance". Typical assumption based on the fact they were wearing skirts and moving their hips. No one bothered to notice that Turkish women wore pants not skirts and it was just a costume. The Kocheks were still around, only in the rural areas and they didn't dance for tourists. But all of a sudden they started showing up on T.V variety shows and they've been rediscovered. Now because of modern technology, they're all over the place.

I like the Ankara style. More animated, but look through the related clips. I think you'd make a very good Kochek. Looks like you're not alone in the world after all.

: Ankara style

: Kastamanu style. North central Turkey, near the Black Sea. Notice what the women wear.

Actually, this is the type of outfit all male dancer wore from Tunisia to Egypt to Turkey up until the turn of the century when the tradition of male dancers died out in the eyes of the larger public in the urban centers.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Skirt dance

Here's another one Zorba. Thought you'd like the colors and spins.

 

[Zorba]

Thanx Tarik - I'll take a look at them tomorrow when I have some bandwidth. 26.6K dialup (not a mis-type) sucks...

 

[Caroline_afifi]

[

QUOTE=Tarik Sultan;85210]Only if its a Turkish Kochek. Now that is authentic Middle Eastern men's skirt dance. Warning, don't get lost in youtube land, but there are literally thousands of these clips now. When I wrote my article Oriental Dance isn't just for women, no one knew such a thing existed. Even most Turks I knew knew nothing about it and thought it was a dead tradition from the Ottoman times and what information there was about it was the typical stereotype of "men imitating women's dance". Typical assumption based on the fact they were wearing skirts and moving their hips.

Hi Tarik,
a couple of questions here. Why do think it was an assumption? were skirts part of mens daily dress like trousers were part of womens?

What does Turkish history say about this. I, by the way, know sweet FA about Turkish dancing.

No one bothered to notice that Turkish women wore pants not skirts and it was just a costume.

OK, I do know that trousers were worn by traditionally all over Asia for practical modest reasons.

The Kocheks were still around, only in the rural areas and they didn't dance for tourists. But all of a sudden they started showing up on T.V variety shows and they've been rediscovered. Now because of modern technology, they're all over the place.

Why is that do you think?

I like the Ankara style. More animated, but look through the related clips. I think you'd make a very good Kochek. Looks like you're not alone in the world after all.

: Ankara style

: Kastamanu style. North central Turkey, near the Black Sea. Notice what the women wear.

Actually, this is the type of outfit all male dancer wore from Tunisia to Egypt to Turkey up until the turn of the century when the tradition of male dancers died out in the eyes of the larger public in the urban centers.

[/QUOTE]

Where is the information source about this issue of men wearing skirts til the turn of the century? are there photos, written accounts or anything else documented about this?
To be honest, I have never come across this other than the mention and documentation of travel writers in reference to female impersonators.

 

[khanjar]

Interesting about men dancing in skirts, well, the Scots have and still do, why not other places, in fact traditional costume the world over until fairly recent times men have worn skirts, possibly in warmer climates and the not so warm climates, but then the people were of hardier stock than what we have now. So to me, if for men skirt type things were daily wear, why not dance in skirts.

One of my relatives when not at work still prefers to wear a lungi, which is a type of skirt.

You see, I draw my thoughts on things from daily life of common people, what common people do the world over and see dancing as not necessarily a profession, but something anyone can do at any time in any part of the world, rich or poor. Dance has not always been a performance art.

It would perhaps be interesting to research when it was, or why it was that it was expected that men not wear skirt type clothing. I know the Roman army in Britain adopted the use of braccae as was the thing with some of the local inhabitants, whilst they were stationed up on the North Walls, hadrian's and the Antonine wall.

 

[Zorba]

Ok, was able to watch all 3. I liked the Kastamanu style the best - love LOVE those triple tiered skirts! Although the cameraman on the Ankara style as well as the editor of the Kastamanu style clips should be shot, they were better than most YouTube clips. The third one, which I did indeed love the colors and spins, was obviously filmed by a monkey and edited by a bumblebee.

The subject of men in skirts is, no surprise, of considerable interest to me. The Scots kilt is the worst looking skirt ever devised by man, but the Greek/Albanian Foustanella is very beautiful - and came in longer lengths and many other colors historically than what is seen today. Men have worn skirts in many/most of the world at one time or another, they're far more comfortable than "crotch crushers" and are a blast to dance in.

As Arthur C. Clarke said "Trousers are a western absurdity".