Egypt: current situation?
- Thread starter Jane
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Farasha Hanem
New member
Amanda (was Aziyade)
Well-known member
Caroline is on Facebook. She recently posted this:
'US secretly pushing for Islamic fascist regime in Egypt' - YouTube
And reposted this:
To all my American friends,
Given your media's total blackout and bias towards our idiot president, I feel compelled to take a few minutes of your time to shed some light on the crisis were facing in Egypt today. Due to the atrocious and u
tterly unconstitutional decrees issued by Mohamed Morsi on the 22nd of November, my people took to the streets to protest these blatant violations of every conceivable right the revolution stood for. The marginalization of women and various religious groups, the legalization of child marriage and labour were just a few of the catastrophes his proposed constitution aims to put in place. Moreover, he gave himself sweeping powers vis a vis the constitutional decree which allows him to immune all his decisions and ensure that his decrees are irrevocable and unaccountable before the law (which he took the liberty of destroying by crippling our judicial system so that he would have no other state body to answer to.) Mind you, this degree grants Morsi the power to sell parts of Egyptian territories, or even marry our mothers should he choose to do so without so much as an objection from anyone since this is after all, the law as of now. Since enforcing this lunatic decree, he issued arrests warrants against all opposition figures, forced media channels to shut down production for showing bank statements with transferred state money into his son's personal bank account in the US, and labelled the reported 25 million Egyptians that took to the streets last Tuesday (Dec 4th) across the country as a "minority, influenced by drugs given to them by enemies of Egypt to shake the stability of the state." Other labels included, spies, thugs of the former regime, or my personal favorite, Christians hired by the church to conspire against Morsi and his brotherhood. Meanwhile, he had his army of absent minded followers (fundamentalist terrorists that belong to the Muslim Brotherhood, the Jamaa' Islameya, and the salafi movement) brutally attack the sit in of peaceful protestors and cause a reported 5 fatalities and over 600 injured individuals. His thugs beat up and assaulted women and children and chained activists to the walls of the presidential palace and beat them to death if they refused to claim they belonged to the former regime. His thugs have also targeted and kidnapped around 80 innocent protestors who include reporters, former diplomats, and entrepreneurs whose families still fear the next time they hear of them will be when they go to identify their bodies. When Morsi finally graced the public last night with a long awaited speech, he not only failed to offer any concessions to prevent the current situation from exacerbating any further, he aggravated the masses by inviting the very opposition he's accusing of treachery and issuing arrest warrants against to 'negotiations' that he emphasized will not result in him canceling his ludacris decree or even postponing the 'unconstitutional' referendum that is set to take place on December 15th. To add insult to injury, president Obama urged opposition to hurry into negotiations with Morsi without setting any preconditions on their part for dialogue. In other words, Obama is asking Egyptians to hurry into debating the terms of their enslavement.
Egyptians do not submit to tyranny. Egyptians do not submit to terrorists. Egyptians refuse to have a terrorist for a president, the very terrorist your government is trying force on us in order to maintain its interests in Israel and Gaza.
We ask of you to take part in eliminating the media bias against our struggle and shed light on what's truly happening in our country. Help us ensure that those who lost their lives for freedom have not done so in vain. Raise awareness in your local communities over whats really happening in Egypt.Prevent your president from empowering our dictator and silencing the voices of Egyptians struggling for a better future.
We are optimistic and we will not be silenced.
'US secretly pushing for Islamic fascist regime in Egypt' - YouTube
And reposted this:
To all my American friends,
Given your media's total blackout and bias towards our idiot president, I feel compelled to take a few minutes of your time to shed some light on the crisis were facing in Egypt today. Due to the atrocious and u
tterly unconstitutional decrees issued by Mohamed Morsi on the 22nd of November, my people took to the streets to protest these blatant violations of every conceivable right the revolution stood for. The marginalization of women and various religious groups, the legalization of child marriage and labour were just a few of the catastrophes his proposed constitution aims to put in place. Moreover, he gave himself sweeping powers vis a vis the constitutional decree which allows him to immune all his decisions and ensure that his decrees are irrevocable and unaccountable before the law (which he took the liberty of destroying by crippling our judicial system so that he would have no other state body to answer to.) Mind you, this degree grants Morsi the power to sell parts of Egyptian territories, or even marry our mothers should he choose to do so without so much as an objection from anyone since this is after all, the law as of now. Since enforcing this lunatic decree, he issued arrests warrants against all opposition figures, forced media channels to shut down production for showing bank statements with transferred state money into his son's personal bank account in the US, and labelled the reported 25 million Egyptians that took to the streets last Tuesday (Dec 4th) across the country as a "minority, influenced by drugs given to them by enemies of Egypt to shake the stability of the state." Other labels included, spies, thugs of the former regime, or my personal favorite, Christians hired by the church to conspire against Morsi and his brotherhood. Meanwhile, he had his army of absent minded followers (fundamentalist terrorists that belong to the Muslim Brotherhood, the Jamaa' Islameya, and the salafi movement) brutally attack the sit in of peaceful protestors and cause a reported 5 fatalities and over 600 injured individuals. His thugs beat up and assaulted women and children and chained activists to the walls of the presidential palace and beat them to death if they refused to claim they belonged to the former regime. His thugs have also targeted and kidnapped around 80 innocent protestors who include reporters, former diplomats, and entrepreneurs whose families still fear the next time they hear of them will be when they go to identify their bodies. When Morsi finally graced the public last night with a long awaited speech, he not only failed to offer any concessions to prevent the current situation from exacerbating any further, he aggravated the masses by inviting the very opposition he's accusing of treachery and issuing arrest warrants against to 'negotiations' that he emphasized will not result in him canceling his ludacris decree or even postponing the 'unconstitutional' referendum that is set to take place on December 15th. To add insult to injury, president Obama urged opposition to hurry into negotiations with Morsi without setting any preconditions on their part for dialogue. In other words, Obama is asking Egyptians to hurry into debating the terms of their enslavement.
Egyptians do not submit to tyranny. Egyptians do not submit to terrorists. Egyptians refuse to have a terrorist for a president, the very terrorist your government is trying force on us in order to maintain its interests in Israel and Gaza.
We ask of you to take part in eliminating the media bias against our struggle and shed light on what's truly happening in our country. Help us ensure that those who lost their lives for freedom have not done so in vain. Raise awareness in your local communities over whats really happening in Egypt.Prevent your president from empowering our dictator and silencing the voices of Egyptians struggling for a better future.
We are optimistic and we will not be silenced.
Amanda (was Aziyade)
Well-known member
I have no opinion on the above --- I'm just trying to sort out what's going on over there, and why, since we're hearing virtually nothing about it in the mainstream media.
Jane
New member
Yes, I've been reading bits and pieces from dancers FB and blogs too. Found Caroline on FB- thanks aziyade. Why is there next to nothing in western media about what's happening? We get a trickle and an overview. Not much. Honestly, this is a huge world happening and reporting is being withheld, but by who and why?
khanjar
New member
Here is a place worth watching when everywhere else seems strangely dumb;
http://www.presstv.ir/section/351020502.html
And here sometimes;
Rival protests held as Egypt referendum due - Middle East - Al Jazeera English
But they both exist to put some balance into any news story.
http://www.presstv.ir/section/351020502.html
And here sometimes;
Rival protests held as Egypt referendum due - Middle East - Al Jazeera English
But they both exist to put some balance into any news story.
khanjar
New member
Why is news being withheld is all dependent on how much you buy into conspiracy theories, where I believe everything we ever know about anything is by design in that we are told what we need to know and nothing of what we don't, oh and those pesky little stories that sneak out regarding realities that don't match up to the official line, look what happens to them, often they are not given air time or are at best ridiculed and labelled as minority factions.
This of course helps political ambitions where the populace can be steered into support via the media education it is subject to. It happened in the past in Britain when it had an empire where to the stay at home Brit that invests in foreign militaristic trade expeditions those in countries to be conquered were portrayed as savages and all manner of evil where there are even statues in this country where the indigenous peoples are portrayed as little better than animals and does anyone wonder why I have in the past been so vociferous about my country's historical exploits in the world.
But the discerning reader if they wish to gather more of the truth of what is happening anywhere they will search other news outlets other than what is usually forced down their throat for we are subject to ongoing education, because our support is needed to further other's ambition as it always was in the past, it worked then and works still, but at least that is starting erode now we have the freedom of the internet.
Erik
New member
MizzNaaa was logged in earlier but this thread was bumped from the top then. If she was in a hurry perhaps she didn't see it. I wish she would get the hell out of there. I think Germany offers dual citizenship.
I have been keeping an eyeball on this situation for weeks but don't have much useful to add. The Egyptian military can keep Morsi or remove him, just as they removed Farouk and Mubarak, but US meddling could be a factor as well.
I have been keeping an eyeball on this situation for weeks but don't have much useful to add. The Egyptian military can keep Morsi or remove him, just as they removed Farouk and Mubarak, but US meddling could be a factor as well.
Shanazel
Moderator
I look forward to commentary from Mizzy whose thoughtfulness and eruditeness are obvious from her past posts.
On the other hand, the above is Classic Caroline, casting aspersions with a free hand and an unequalled viciousness toward America that becomes, to say the least, tiresome.
Somehow I, living in the Back of Beyond Wyoming, am aware of the deteriorating conditions in Egypt despite the media's "total blackout." Egyptians may not "submit to tyranny" but they voted it in sure as hell and they are paying an ungodly price for their naivety. My heart goes out to them.
Perhaps it was Egypt's media blackout re: the truth of this person's agenda that did the harm. Hmm. Now there's a concept- a corrupt Egyptian media hiding the truth from the people.
However, I'd better stay out of the discussion. The last disagreement of this nature is the reason Caroline and a number of others stormed away from OD several years ago, essentially declaring that any of us who disagree with their point of view were surely racist.
On the other hand, the above is Classic Caroline, casting aspersions with a free hand and an unequalled viciousness toward America that becomes, to say the least, tiresome.
Somehow I, living in the Back of Beyond Wyoming, am aware of the deteriorating conditions in Egypt despite the media's "total blackout." Egyptians may not "submit to tyranny" but they voted it in sure as hell and they are paying an ungodly price for their naivety. My heart goes out to them.
Perhaps it was Egypt's media blackout re: the truth of this person's agenda that did the harm. Hmm. Now there's a concept- a corrupt Egyptian media hiding the truth from the people.
However, I'd better stay out of the discussion. The last disagreement of this nature is the reason Caroline and a number of others stormed away from OD several years ago, essentially declaring that any of us who disagree with their point of view were surely racist.
khanjar
New member
We are all subject to that though aren't we, we vote in people who promise all sorts, seem the right person for the job but suddenly do not come up to expectations when they are in power, for it is all a game of chance.
We have one such in our country at the moment terrorising a sector of the population and there does appear to be a news blackout on what's going on as campaign groups report the media isn't interested in taking up the stories but what is worse, this leader was not voted into power, he assumed power via back room dealings with another minority party who took the deputy position, we don't have a democratically elected leader and we are supposed to be a democratic country, how the hell can we lecture anyone else on the benefits of democracy.
Shanazel
Moderator
Nobody said the road to democracy is smooth nor that democracy is a perfect place once you get there.
To quote Benjamin Franklin, 1706-1790, on the subject of democracy:
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Darn. I was going to stay out of this discussion, wasn't I?
To quote Benjamin Franklin, 1706-1790, on the subject of democracy:
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Darn. I was going to stay out of this discussion, wasn't I?
khanjar
New member
Yeah, sorry to drag you back in, but I responded to your input.
As to democracy, a system that is representational is only just democracy, something a lot of people in my country are starting to wake up to when they realise in this democratic country through the representational system we effectively have no say with the party system, unless we resort to organised protest action and that isn't a surety we will have our say, because mean men in power have the ability to authorise official labelling and render protests little better than criminal to receive attention from those that seek to stop criminal behaviour
But the UK how long has it been a democracy and now we have what we have which is little short of a dictatorship because we have no say and the media is under influence, especially the slimy BBC, where there is a strong call for the populace to stop paying for it's existence via what is little short of taxation through dishonest means.
I came to the conclusion long ago that the world is sewn up by mean men and mean men influence others to be mean, be in the club, or be outside of it and reap the consequences. But the western world has fingers in others choice of leaders they do so for their own gain first and foremost and populations can just suffer.
Kashmir
New member
Problem with democracy is all those people who disagree with you get to vote as well. I suspected this might happen as there is a huge conservative population in Egypt. When I saw the original protesters I thought that in many ways they were not representative of what is mostly a desparately poor and uneducated population in Egypt. The protesters looked fairly well fed, educated and well clothed. Now they are finding they are in the minority.
Yes- without knowing many of the specifics of any country's issues, if you see on the news a crowd of people in a country which you know is relatively poor and where English is not the national language, holding placards in English and giving comments to reporters in English, you have to wonder how representative they are.
That doesn't mean that they are more wrong/right/informed about the crucial issues or less motivated by self-interest. It's about dempcracy after all.
Saw on the news just now that results from the first polling stations indicate that the new constitution has just over 50 % of the vote. With such a small majority, the issue is obviously not settled.
khanjar
New member
I believe one has to first understand what conservatism is and it is something the majority feel through a fear of change in that those who are relatively comfortable do not want to see their situation get worse and only interested in their situation getting better or at least staying the same.
Those who are not comfortable will have different views and when that discomfort manifests as a struggle to live through no fault of their own they will seek change as is the desire for life through the human will to survive and live to one's best ability.
What I personally understand of what Morsi is proposing is basically the next best thing to a dictatorship and the question is how would we feel if such things were being enacted on us in the West, oh, it is in the UK but to a much lesser extent and people are starting to react, but it is the nature of the Brit that they do things slowly and seek peaceful means of change mostly as they know full well authority is very powerful and deeply entrenched, but there is something they cling to and that is a sense of fair play.
But I would wish that foreign interests kept their noses out of other countries and let those countries define their own futures and then seek parley with them for what we could trade, not influence their politics to our advantage.
And religion, although individual belief and spirituality is good, religion has long been known as a tool of thought and mass people control, to be a member of the club one must follow the party line which in effect removes the ability to think for one self and make one's own decisions in life and so I abhor the use of religion for political gain.
But it is an observation, where poverty exists, religion flourishes.
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MizzNaaa
New member
My thoughts on the matter are long, extensive and interwoven with personal bias. I'm not quite sure if it would be the best idea for me to be your only source of info on the situation. Either way, thanks for your concern guys. It warms my heart that I've made friends here already who think about me like that. This thread, despite the gravity of the issue being discussed, put a smile on my face.
I'll possibly post about this tomorrow as it's almost 2 am and I have to be in class at 7 30 am tomorrow.
I'll possibly post about this tomorrow as it's almost 2 am and I have to be in class at 7 30 am tomorrow.
khanjar
New member
The party system is all our problems as we lurch from one ideology to the other, but as regards voting what many do in the UK given the party system is vote for who is less likely to cause the most damage to what lifestyles we have as to remember our lifestyles are vastly different from those that rule. Independents once I have heard them and if I agree, they get my vote but not parties as they do not serve those that vote for them, they only serve those that pay into them. That is parties only serve paid up members not anyone else.
But MizzNizaa, I understand your situation for the news blackout we perceive in the west is undoubtedly for a reason and who knows who or what might be watching given the interest of this largely western website, do be ever so careful !
Edited to add perhaps I may come over as somewhat paranoid in my warning, but it is not unfounded, for I have a strong distrust for politicians and what may work on their behalf for one thing I do understand is power those who want it, those who have it and those that want to keep it, many will stop at nothing.
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