Egyptian/American Fusion

[masrawy]

Jane, I think it's a terrific clip and showcases Ms. F's comedic side, which I had never seen until now!

What is fusion? It's a blend of styles. It might be good fusion or bad fusion and even so-bad-it's-hilarious fusion (and let's remember this is supposed to be musical comedy), but this scene is a blend of styles.

Please read post # 11 the clip has nothing to do with fusion as you know it Nagwa Fouad would be horrified from that thought.

I could only blame the film director ...

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Please read post # 11 the clip has nothing to do with fusion as you know it Nagwa Fouad would be horrified from that thought.

I could only blame the film director ...

It was fusion and Nagwa was the Egyptian Queen of fusion.

 

[chryssanthi sahar]

It was fusion and Nagwa was the Egyptian Queen of fusion.

I agree It is not fusion in today's means, but it is a kind of fusion. And Nagwa was anyway the Egyptian Queen of belly dance, fusion or not I looooooved that video clip:clap: Whatever Naqwa danced, she danced it wonderful! I have a video of hers, where she is dancing Waltz with a guy, boy, this was also marvelous:dance:

 

[masrawy]

It was fusion and Nagwa was the Egyptian Queen of fusion.

You're right now you mention it ... I could even see Gothic style in it, she was wearing Black Melaya laf.

 

[masrawy]

are you all blind ...

Whatever Naqwa danced, she danced it wonderful!

I rest my case ....

 

[Aisha Azar]

Film

Please read post # 11 the clip has nothing to do with fusion as you know it Nagwa Fouad would be horrified from that thought.

I could only blame the film director ...

Dear Mahmoud,
I agree very much that much of what was and is seen of dance on film is the director's choice and perhaps not what the dancer would have intended had she been following her own thinking. I have tried to talk about this before, with a dancer who believes that the old films are the be all and end all of the dance. When in reality, belly dance in Egyptian film was meant to serve other purposes for the most part, and not really be what the film was about. It was often shown as something that was going to lead up to a sexual interlude, or it might shown as a device to make a scene more dramatic and tense. For example often see the dancer as the backdrop while we watch the main character in emotional agony. The dance was never the main focal point in those old films and was rarely very important in the scheme of them, though there are a few exceptions. Nagwa Fouad was not necessarily being a belly dancer at all here, was she?
Regards,
A'isha

 

[Kharmine]

Please read post # 11 the clip has nothing to do with fusion as you know it Nagwa Fouad would be horrified from that thought.

I could only blame the film director ...

Dear M,

We don't know each other. I've been away from the forum for some time.

So I hope you'll give me the benefit of the doubt when I say this isn't meant to be snarky or at all negative: 1) I do read all the posts in a thread before I respond -- even those of people I otherwise ignore, so I don't make a mistake 2) you don't know how I "know" fusion, 3) you do seem to have a different definition of "fusion" then what I am familiar with.

The basic meaning of "fusion" is a blend, a combination, a union of at least two different things. That's the dictionary definition. It applies to music, dance, cooking and nuclear physics. It has no connotations of good, bad, desirable or any other adjective.

I don't presume to know how Ms. F thinks, but I'm guessing that she would agree the dance scene combined elements of East and West culture and dance styles for comedic effect. It was meant to.

Kharmine

 

[masrawy]

Dear A'isha,

I agree with what you are saying, as you said there is few exceptions, mainly in the one films. As for Nagwa I you really never liked her dance in general.

Best regards. ~Mahmoud

 

[shiradotnet]

I agree very much that much of what was and is seen of dance on film is the director's choice and perhaps not what the dancer would have intended had she been following her own thinking. I have tried to talk about this before, with a dancer who believes that the old films are the be all and end all of the dance. When in reality, belly dance in Egyptian film was meant to serve other purposes for the most part, and not really be what the film was about. The dance was never the main focal point in those old films and was rarely very important in the scheme of them, though there are a few exceptions.

Thank you so much for pointing this out. This is actually one of the issues that led me to develop my Dance in Egyptian Cinema lecture/video workshop. People were drawing incorrect conclusions from Egyptian movie scenes as a result of not thinking about context.

For example, in the scene from Tamra Henna where Naima Akef dances in a white evening gown with a mermaid ruffle at the bottom, I've heard people say, "Oh, I didn't know they had the lycra costumes back then!" They didn't. This was an evening gown that she wore to a formal party, and was intended to be Western attire such as what the other party guests would be wearing. She had no intentions of doing a dance performance, and was pressured into it by her rival.

This is why I have such a strong interest in obtaining and watching the full-length movies for myself, rather than just watching compilations of clips. The compilations are good for entertainment, but shouldn't be considered as documentary.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

You're right now you mention it ... I could even see Gothic style in it, she was wearing Black Melaya laf.

As Chryssanthi said, its not one of the fusion styles we see on the scene now, but remember what fusion is. Fusion is when you blend two or more things together. Anytime you have more than one dance style in a single dance routine its a fusion. This could mean blending the two movement vocabularies, or it could mean moving from one dance style to another. It could mean using the movements of a particular dance to the music of another culture, for example doing Egyptian moves to hip-hop or Rock music. In this routine we see a blending of two styles, one Rock and Roll,(the twist) and the other Egyptian, (Baladi). She didn't dance a twist routine completely and she didn't dance Baladi completely, she did both.

Tribal, Gothic etc are only a few possibilities. Egyptian dancers did fusions all the time. Samia Gamal, Naima Akef, Katie and many other did fusions of Ballet, Jazz, even movie style Hula. The major difference between what they did and what we see today is that the Egyptians didn't try to create a new style of dance like "Gothic". They did a fusion in the context of a performance or a movie scene. Like most aspects of Egyptian dance in the real world, no one is sitting around creating labels for things. People understand and accept what is being done in the context in which its happening. So when Nagwa ends her Oriental routine with a Waltz, (which I saw her do live in Egypt), people understand that she is trying to be different and innovative in her show, not that she is deliberately creating "a new style".

As a matter of fact, just about every Egyptian dancer at some point has done some sort of fusion. These are just a few examples:

Naima Akef: Not only is the dance a fusion, but so is the music:


Samia Gamal and Farid. Very famous movie. I think its Afrita Hanem. This whole routine, like the song itself, is a fusion:



Like I said, Its all been done before. Nothing new under the sun and no problem as long as the context and intent of the number is understood.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Dear M,

We don't know each other. I've been away from the forum for some time.

So I hope you'll give me the benefit of the doubt when I say this isn't meant to be snarky or at all negative: 1) I do read all the posts in a thread before I respond -- even those of people I otherwise ignore, so I don't make a mistake 2) you don't know how I "know" fusion, 3) you do seem to have a different definition of "fusion" then what I am familiar with.

The basic meaning of "fusion" is a blend, a combination, a union of at least two different things. That's the dictionary definition. It applies to music, dance, cooking and nuclear physics. It has no connotations of good, bad, desirable or any other adjective.

I don't presume to know how Ms. F thinks, but I'm guessing that she would agree the dance scene combined elements of East and West culture and dance styles for comedic effect. It was meant to.

Kharmine

Exactly!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Hockey Pokey is what its all about and I have the youtube clips to prove it!:lol:

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Thank you so much for pointing this out. This is actually one of the issues that led me to develop my Dance in Egyptian Cinema lecture/video workshop. People were drawing incorrect conclusions from Egyptian movie scenes as a result of not thinking about context.

For example, in the scene from Tamra Henna where Naima Akef dances in a white evening gown with a mermaid ruffle at the bottom, I've heard people say, "Oh, I didn't know they had the lycra costumes back then!" They didn't. This was an evening gown that she wore to a formal party, and was intended to be Western attire such as what the other party guests would be wearing. She had no intentions of doing a dance performance, and was pressured into it by her rival.

This is why I have such a strong interest in obtaining and watching the full-length movies for myself, rather than just watching compilations of clips. The compilations are good for entertainment, but shouldn't be considered as documentary.

Exactly. As I said before, context is everything. Egyptian dancers never have to label things because their audiences understand the context of what they are doing, whether it be in a movie, or in a dance routine in a night club. You and I have seen enough shows in Egypt together to know that many of them do all sorts of things that don't necessarily have anything to do with Oriental dance persay. Its just that they want to do something to stand out from the crowd and everyone understands that. Its us Westerners that have to be told that sticking a Waltz in the middle of a routine, jumping out of a giant gift box, being backed up by dancers with mops and pails, or riding in on a choo choo train or being lowed in a cherry picker has nothing to do with the dance.

 

[masrawy]

it is scary at least

Hey Tarik,

Believe me I do understand what the word means, Egyptian dancers always added creativity and personality to their dance. But hell they new how to dance in the first place do you want to call that fusion fine ... but the Western vision of belly dance fusion is totally different animal and it is scary the least.

As for your evidence clips you are mixing between two different medium, what was done in a movie set is not necessary was the intent of the dancer.


Salam~Mahmoud

Who dug this post out from 6 feet under ..

As Chryssanthi said, its not one of the fusion styles we see on the scene now, but remember what fusion is. Fusion is when you blend two or more things together. Anytime you have more than one dance style in a single dance routine its a fusion. This could mean blending the two movement vocabularies, or it could mean moving from one dance style to another. It could mean using the movements of a particular dance to the music of another culture, for example doing Egyptian moves to hip-hop or Rock music. In this routine we see a blending of two styles, one Rock and Roll,(the twist) and the other Egyptian, (Baladi). She didn't dance a twist routine completely and she didn't dance Baladi completely, she did both.

Tribal, Gothic etc are only a few possibilities. Egyptian dancers did fusions all the time. Samia Gamal, Naima Akef, Katie and many other did fusions of Ballet, Jazz, even movie style Hula. The major difference between what they did and what we see today is that the Egyptians didn't try to create a new style of dance like "Gothic". They did a fusion in the context of a performance or a movie scene. Like most aspects of Egyptian dance in the real world, no one is sitting around creating labels for things. People understand and accept what is being done in the context in which its happening. So when Nagwa ends her Oriental routine with a Waltz, (which I saw her do live in Egypt), people understand that she is trying to be different and innovative in her show, not that she is deliberately creating "a new style".

As a matter of fact, just about every Egyptian dancer at some point has done some sort of fusion. These are just a few examples:

Naima Akef: Not only is the dance a fusion, but so is the music:


Samia Gamal and Farid. Very famous movie. I think its Afrita Hanem. This whole routine, like the song itself, is a fusion:



Like I said, Its all been done before. Nothing new under the sun and no problem as long as the context and intent of the number is understood.

 

[shiradotnet]

Samia Gamal and Farid. Very famous movie. I think its Afrita Hanem. This whole routine, like the song itself, is a fusion:


Like I said, Its all been done before. Nothing new under the sun and no problem as long as the context and intent of the number is understood.

Yes, this scene is indeed from Afrita Hanem. It illustrates a key point that many people looking at Samia Gamal clips for the first time don't understand - typically in her movies, Samia Gamal preferred to do only one Oriental dance scene. She preferred to use a Western dance aesthetic for the others, and this scene is an example of that. It was because she felt she couldn't get enough variation in her dance scenes if she did only Oriental, she felt she needed the Western styles for variety. And, of course, artists have always enjoyed experimenting outside their boxes.

 

[Yasmina]

Dear A'isha,
As for Nagwa I you really never liked her dance in general.

I've never been a really big fan of Nagwa's dancing and always get bombed when I tell people this. Somehow almost everyone thinks that "one day I'll understand".

 

[Aisha Azar]

Nagwa Fouad

I've never been a really big fan of Nagwa's dancing and always get bombed when I tell people this. Somehow almost everyone thinks that "one day I'll understand".

Dear Yasmina and Mahmoud,
I think I have also been bombed a time or two for saying Nagwa Fouad was not the greatest dancer in the world. She was often sloppy, out of control and lefts a lot of her movements unfinished in order to keep up with her music. The choreographies she performed were often rather frantic. Left to her own devices, she could do the most killer shimmies in the world.... but one great movement family does not a great dancer make. All that being said, Ms. Fouad once told someone I know that she is more of a show woman than a technically great dancer, and this is something to which we all can attest. She put on fun full length performances, with lots of changes, great costuming, and good music. She was the Queen of Fakeloric and did some really fun skits and things.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[masrawy]

Great minds think alike

I've never been a really big fan of Nagwa's dancing and always get bombed when I tell people this. Somehow almost everyone thinks that "one day I'll understand".

I perfectly understand that ... I all the time here just close your eyes and you will see better and enjoy the show.

Unfortunately, they are rightand may be one day you will understand, it's like your mother in law if she give you a couch or drapes and you didn't like it when you first looked at it. just put it on the window or your living room for a while and you will get used to it and it won't look that ugly after a while. It doesn't change how ugly the couch is .... just the way you look at it.

​

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Hey Tarik,

Believe me I do understand what the word means, Egyptian dancers always added creativity and personality to their dance. But hell they new how to dance in the first place do you want to call that fusion fine ... but the Western vision of belly dance fusion is totally different animal and it is scary the least.

The point that I'm trying to make is that they did do fusions. Of course it doesn't look like what they do in the States, different time period, different music, different motivation. The point is that a fusion can be anything, look like anything. Gothic or whatever else they are doing in the states is just one possible example of a type of fusion. Its not the only possible example of fusion.

As for your evidence clips you are mixing between two different medium, what was done in a movie set is not necessary was the intent of the dancer.

Like I said, context is everything. It was done in movie scenes for different reasons, and I have been to Egypt several times when it was possible to see a top star dancer every night of the week. I've seen Nagwa's show several times and she often added Western elements and dances into her Oriental routines. I've seen Lucy add elements of African and Jazz in her dance. Even Mona Said has added Latin elements in her dance, and Tahia Carioka was called CARIOKA because she did the popular Brazilian dance the CARIOKA in her routine. So yes, fusions of all types were being done in Egyptian night clubs by the performers. The only difference is, like I said, people all understood the context. They were not trying to create a new style of dance, they were doing fusions as a segment in their Oriental routines to make their shows unique and everyone understood and still understands that when it happens.

Salam~Mahmoud

Who dug this post out from 6 feet under ..

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Yes, this scene is indeed from Afrita Hanem. It illustrates a key point that many people looking at Samia Gamal clips for the first time don't understand - typically in her movies, Samia Gamal preferred to do only one Oriental dance scene. She preferred to use a Western dance aesthetic for the others, and this scene is an example of that. It was because she felt she couldn't get enough variation in her dance scenes if she did only Oriental, she felt she needed the Western styles for variety. And, of course, artists have always enjoyed experimenting outside their boxes.

Exactly my point. She did it to be different, for variety and the Egyptian audiences understood this. They knew when she was doing a western inspired dance and when she was doing a purely Egyptian dance. The problem comes when Westerners see these thing because they have no exposure or connection to the culture and they don't understand the context of what they are seeing. Yes Samia was an Oriental dancer, but that doesn't mean that everything she did on stage or screen was, or was intended to be Oriental. This is what they have to know. Just because she or Naima did high kicks, or splits and cartwheels in a number, doesn't mean that we should imitate it if we are doing a number that we intend to be an authentic Oriental routine.

WE HAVE to explain what we are doing, because unlike the dancers in Egypt, who perform for Middle Eastern audiences where the culture is understood, we are performing for Western audiences, most of whom know very little to next to nothing about the people and their dance or culture.

 

[Aisha Azar]

"Fusion"

Dear Gang,
Regardless of any other factor, regardless of what is added or subtracted from the dances, regardless of what "western" innovations the dancers might have included, one thing remains true. The dance remains distinctly Egyptian, no matter what, because of the cultural worldview of the dancers performing it.

We see the same thing in most western dancers who want to perform Egyptian. What they end up with remains distinctly western because they perform the dance from their own worldview. There are some few people who are able to feel such sympatico with another culture's way of looking at life that they can express in the essence of that culture, but I think this is a more rare thing than we can admit....
Regards,
A'isha