Face Veil

[Chani]

We are learning a chorie that has been performed years ago by other students in my Belly Dance School. Now we are reviving this chorie and will be expected to make and wear the same costume that the original troupe wore to perform this dance. The outfit is your standard bedlah, hot pink, and has accessories - arm gauntlets, head band etc. The problem I have with the costume is that it has a face veil.

I've never liked them for belly dancing and now after reading at this forum I understand that it can be inappropriate, offensive even. So, I really want to ask my instructor if we can leave out this part of our costume. However, I equally don't want to offend my teacher any more than I do my audience...and really even if my audience isn't aware that it may be disrespectful to be including a face veil for this dance costume I am aware of that fact.

My teacher is so pleased with the costume which was her original design (and is great aside from the veil). The other dancers have no problem with the veil and when I've mentioned it they are unaware that it might be considered offensive and don't seem concerned about that when I explain in what way if could be offensive. It has already been performed many times previously with this veil (so me complaining about it woiuld point out that I didn't think they should have worn it in the first place).

What would you do in this situation? I could simply respect my teachers choice and wear it and know that probably nobody but myself finds it "off". Or do I speak up? Even if I do speak up it doesn't mean that the veil will be dropped from the costume - most likely not since I am the only person who has an issue with it. So at the end of the day I wonder if there is any point in saying something - for what purpose YK? It's niggling at me which is why I've brought it to the forum to get some other perspectives.

BTW this dance is Turkish - could I be unaware and could this face veil be appropriate for some Turkish dancing?

 

[Caroline_afifi]

It's tricky being a student.

I have some serious blackmail videos from when i was a student performing with a group. I was given a costume to wear by the teacher and it was truly vile and looked like a fancy dress costume... which it was!

I think you have to have a certain anount of personal strength and integrity and be able to say no if you are not happy.

The costume you described reeks of 'Harem' fantasy to be honest and would have to be seriously sedated to wear it.

That's me... but what about you? you dont sound happy. What do others think?

Ask your teacher about the 'meaning' of the costume and 'what does it say?'

If your teacher and her ideas no longer match you, you may want to find another who fits in with your understanding of this dance and what it is about.

 

[maria_harlequin]

Eeeek...I'm definitely worried if you have a teacher that insists on wearing a face veil for a performance. Have you asked her what the purpose for wearing one is?

 

[Shanazel]

Oooh, sticky situation. Poor you. I've seriously been tempted to adopt a veil occasionally because I don't like what time is doing to my face (no, really, don't laugh, I am serious), but I never have because face veils always look like bad theatre to me, never mind the social aspects.

A lot of it depends on how comfortable you are with the teacher. Is she the type of person who'd be wildly insulted by the least suggestion of accidental impropriety, or is she the thoughtful type who is willing to at least consider making changes?

Good luck, kiddo.

 

[shiradotnet]

There is a Turkish dance ensemble that appeared on a video called Mezdeke that wears face veils. I saw them dance live in Kusadasi when i went to Turkey in 2000. You can see photos of them on this page of my web site: Scenes From Turkey: Oriental Dance, Part 4: Oriental Dance Outside of Istanbul (scroll down to "Second Dance Act".) So maybe that is what inspired Chani's teacher? Anyway, when I saw this group dancing in Kusadasi, there wasn't much belly dance in it, it was mostly what I would think of as "Russian ballet wannabes putting on belly dance costumes and doing what they think is belly dance".

In Egyptian folkloric dance, it can be okay to wear a face veil as part of a melaya leff dance, but with that dance style you're wearing a dress instead of bedleh, and portraying a very specific type of character.

 

[Caroline_afifi]

There is a Turkish dance ensemble that appeared on a video called Mezdeke that wears face veils. I saw them dance live in Kusadasi when i went to Turkey in 2000. You can see photos of them on this page of my web site: Scenes From Turkey: Oriental Dance, Part 4: Oriental Dance Outside of Istanbul (scroll down to "Second Dance Act".) So maybe that is what inspired Chani's teacher? Anyway, when I saw this group dancing in Kusadasi, there wasn't much belly dance in it, it was mostly what I would think of as "Russian ballet wannabes putting on belly dance costumes and doing what they think is belly dance".

In Egyptian folkloric dance, it can be okay to wear a face veil as part of a melaya leff dance, but with that dance style you're wearing a dress instead of bedleh, and portraying a very specific type of character.

Funny you should say this... I got talking to some dancers from a show in Sharm... turns out they chose and bought their own costumes from the khan El Khalili.

I had never seen such a strange ensemble mix of bedouin and tacky crap.

 

[shiradotnet]

Funny you should say this... I got talking to some dancers from a show in Sharm... turns out they chose and bought their own costumes from the khan El Khalili.

I had never seen such a strange ensemble mix of bedouin and tacky crap.

This sounds truly scary. What nationality were the dancers?

 

[Kashmir]

I think in your shoes I would bring it up as a discussion point with your teacher - in a non-confronting way. Recently I had a vision for a noelty costume for a class group but once everyone contributed their knowledge - of design, their own bodies etc - the result was a little different from my vision but everyone was happy about wearing it. If I'd rammed my vision through it may not have worked as well.

 

[Darbla]

I would go to them and say "Hey, I JUST NOW found out that it's offensive to wear veils like that and I can't do it knowing that I could offend a part of my audience like that!". Then delete this thread and show them other sources for that info.

 

[Caroline_afifi]

This sounds truly scary. What nationality were the dancers?

Ukraine. To be fair, they were not trained in Oriental dance til they reached Egyptian shores and had no idea what to wear... it was all Egyptian to them.

The point is, holiday resorts dont give a toss as long as the customers are there.

Cultural accuracy is not on the list of priorities.

 

[Kharis]

BTW this dance is Turkish - could I be unaware and could this face veil be appropriate for some Turkish dancing?

Erk... Full Metal Yashmak!

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Erk... Full Metal Yashmak!

:lol: when is the premier?

 

[Kharis]

:lol: when is the premier?

Title of a piece by Muslimgauze. Great title I thought then, and still do.

 

[shiradotnet]

Ukraine. To be fair, they were not trained in Oriental dance til they reached Egyptian shores and had no idea what to wear... it was all Egyptian to them.

The point is, holiday resorts dont give a toss as long as the customers are there.

Cultural accuracy is not on the list of priorities.

Yeah, good point. And a vivid illustration of something I'm fond of saying: "Just because you saw someone do it on a stage in Egypt doesn't mean it's a good idea for YOU to do it!"

 

[Amulya]

Isn't there maybe an online article about face veils being offensive? Shira, do you have it mentioned on your site maybe?
If there is you could print it out and give it to your teacher.

 

[shiradotnet]

Isn't there maybe an online article about face veils being offensive? Shira, do you have it mentioned on your site maybe?
If there is you could print it out and give it to your teacher.

At this time, there's not an article about that on my web site, but I've actually been thinking about writing one. I think it's something important for us to educate dance students about.

 

[sultan]

Frankly, I am puzzled as to why anyone objects to performers having face veils. Yes, I am aware some believe it to be offensive. Yet, I have seen several videos where both professional and non professional performers (such as at weddings) wear one without any difficulty or objection. In all honesty, I feel it adds an air of mystery that invariably enhances the dance.

Not to unnecessarily change the topic but, it appears to me that it is women who prefer costuming that is a bit more on the skimpy side whereas men prefer more fuller costuming. Or at least it seems that way. If this has been discussed in the past, please forgive this additional note. At any rate, face veils are part of fuller costuming and that is why some of us accept them.

 

[Chani]

Hi Sultan,

Frankly, I am puzzled as to why anyone objects to performers having face veils. Yes, I am aware some believe it to be offensive.

I agree it's not such a big deal but I am concerned about being offensive through this dance even in a small way. It's important to me to present belly dancing in a respectful way. As a non-Arabic person I possibly (probably) make faux pas all the time but my intention is to honour the dance and the culture/s it has come from as best I can. So once I was aware of the issue with the face mask I felt really weirded out by it. At that point the issue became about me being comfortable in what I dance in, too.

In all honesty, I feel it adds an air of mystery that invariably enhances the dance.

I can see how it would feel like that to some. To be completely honest, I like to see a person's whole face or I find it creepy - I expect for me this is a cultural thing as masks are not part of my culture and hiding the face is seen as secretive or dishonest - an example of this would be wearing sunglasses when indoors which is considered bad manners.

As for it pebing part of a fuller costume it makes little sense to me to cover your face when your entire midriff is bare.

Not to unnecessarily change the topic but, it appears to me that it is women who prefer costuming that is a bit more on the skimpy side whereas men prefer more fuller costuming. Or at least it seems that way. If this has been discussed in the past, please forgive this additional note. At any rate, face veils are part of fuller costuming and that is why some of us accept them.

Thank you for your thoughts on this. As far as being more revealing goes I agree that we see males dancers more covered in general. I don't agree that all women necessarily prefer to be in skimiper costumes. I'm sure most men like seeing women in less LOL.

I have found that as a student dancing in a group I'm not completely free to choose my own individual costuming style and have to be in keeping with the rest of my troupe or, as in this case, wearing exactly the same outfit. So, I have worn to date what is expected and followed the guidelines my instuctor has provided. I am, however, now that I'm a little more experienced and confident with my dancing moving towards a more covered costume. My ideal costume is a full baladi dress with sleeves. I have a nice figure, no scars or disfigurements or any other reason to feel insecure or need to cover up plus I come from a culture where modesty is scarce and my regular clothes can be quite revealing. However, this is simply my preference because I feel that a revealing outfit can be a distraction from the dancing.

What I notice is that regardless of what the dancer prefers to wear or what is traditional to wear, there is also an expectation from an audience. I was really surprised when my mother saw a belly dance performance and complained to me that the dancers were too covered up. I explained that they were most likely doing a folkloric dance and the costume was to match the dance. My Mum is not a fan of a bedlah or any other revealing clothing for that matter so I found it interesting that even though she doesn't approve of these costumes she expected to see them and was disappointed when the women were move covered. It's for this reason - audience expectation - that I also felt that I had to reach a certain level of dancing ability before covering up more so that my dancing can stand alone rather than needing a flashy costume to carry it along.

 

[Chani]

Well, here is the update.

I brought the matter up in class as well as mentioned it to my instructor in an e-mail. She welcomed the discussion and was very open to hearing our thoughts. Everybodies opinions were considered regarding the costume.

She was aware of the face veil issue. She explained that the costumes were following a theme and were based on a specific record cover of a famous belly dance troupe and were meant to have an 80's feel. This was achieved with the hot pink colour and the costume and accessories matching those of the record cover.

She also explained that the costume was designed years ago when people were less sensitive to Middle Eastern culural practices. At the time the women really enjoyed wearing the face masks and felt they wree a fun prop for the dance but she acknowledged that times have changed.

After a group discussion it was decided to ditch the face masks and just have the rest of the costume as it is. Apparently, the masks were very hot to dance in as well. I am really glad to have a costume I'm happy to dance in and very pleased and grateful that our teacher was sensitive to my feelings regarding costuming.

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Well, here is the update.

I brought the matter up in class as well as mentioned it to my instructor in an e-mail. She welcomed the discussion and was very open to hearing our thoughts. Everybodies opinions were considered regarding the costume.

She was aware of the face veil issue. She explained that the costumes were following a theme and were based on a specific record cover of a famous belly dance troupe and were meant to have an 80's feel. This was achieved with the hot pink colour and the costume and accessories matching those of the record cover.

She also explained that the costume was designed years ago when people were less sensitive to Middle Eastern culural practices. At the time the women really enjoyed wearing the face masks and felt they wree a fun prop for the dance but she acknowledged that times have changed.

After a group discussion it was decided to ditch the face masks and just have the rest of the costume as it is. Apparently, the masks were very hot to dance in as well. I am really glad to have a costume I'm happy to dance in and very pleased and grateful that our teacher was sensitive to my feelings regarding costuming.

That sounds like a good outcome regardless of whether or not it was ditched.

the fact that your teacher was open to discussion and had a context for the use of that style of costume is great.

If we had more of that going on in classes i would be very happy.

Context is everything.