Finding a Teacher

I recently found out Horus isn't a certified dance teacher. He improvises and seems to take dance vocabulary from Fat Chance Belly Dance Style(American Tribal Style). Surprised to find this out this he seems so talented. He doesn't seem to teach how to play zills or dancing with veils, but seems to know the belly, hip movements, and chest rolls.
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
I recently found out Horus isn't a certified dance teacher. He improvises and seems to take dance vocabulary from Fat Chance Belly Dance Style(American Tribal Style). Surprised to find this out this he seems so talented. He doesn't seem to teach how to play zills or dancing with veils, but seems to know the belly, hip movements, and chest rolls.
Of all the teachers I've taken classes and workshops from, maybe about four of them were "certified" by somebody else. It doesn't matter, the teacher either has something to teach you - or they do not.
 
Of all the teachers I've taken classes and workshops from, maybe about four of them were "certified" by somebody else. It doesn't matter, the teacher either has something to teach you - or they do not.
So then it's not neccessarily a bad thing if the person isn't certified?
 

Shanazel

Super Moderator
No. It is not a bad thing. Enjoy your classes and your teacher, Prince Ali Baba, sir.

Ahem. I taught for several decades without being certified. One might ask: who certifies the certifiers? Anyone with enough initiative can set up a certification program in belly dance without interference from any Powers That Be, because there aren't any. At any point in time, I could've set up as The Shanazel School of American Oriental Dance and enticed people to spend big bucks to be certified in My Method. With luck, they'd then advertise themselves as Certified Teachers of the Shanazel Method, other folks would say, "Ooo, a teacher certified by THE Shanazel? I've never heard of Shanazel, but she must be real hot stuff if she's offering a certification program. I want to be certified, too, so I'll just dial 1-800-Zel-Raqs and get started."

:geek:
 

Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
And who decides who is qualified to certify? Because some have questioned their quality and found them lacking at times. I know Suhaila certifies teachers and students but not everyone agrees with that style. Taking nothing away from Suhaila, however, but it's a question of preference and what goes and what doesn't go.
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
So then it's not necessarily a bad thing if the person isn't certified?
It means little if they are. Some of the VERY best dancers/teachers on the planet aren't certified by anybody - and several I can think of couldn't possibly be certified by anybody as they're head and shoulders above just about everybody! And if someone is certified by somebody else, that doesn't mean they're necessarily a good teacher - or the "right" teacher for YOU.

Watch a prospective teacher dance. If s/he has something you want, check out their class which may or may not work for YOU. They may be a better dancer than a teacher, or they may be an excellent instructor but just not resonate with YOU. There was one such that I knew who was a great dancer, and a great teacher, but her class didn't work for me the first time I tried it. Several years later, I had grown and she was fantastic for where I was then.

I've even been told that I myself should offer certifications in veilwork and finger cymbals. That's nice. Yea, I'm considered decent enough in those areas, but any certification I issued would be worth the paper it was printed on and nothing more! Who the Hell am I, and who am I kidding? Yea, I've been told by people who attended one of my infrequent workshops that they helped - that's GREAT! But that doesn't mean a "Zorba Certified (tm)" would mean a damn thing. I guess I could charge a bunch of money for it, but I really couldn't put my head on the pillow at nite if I did...
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
And who decides who is qualified to certify? Because some have questioned their quality and found them lacking at times. I know Suhaila certifies teachers and students but not everyone agrees with that style. Taking nothing away from Suhaila, however, but it's a question of preference and what goes and what doesn't go.
Suhaila is probably the best known of the certifiers. That's fine. I've certainly have spent my share of time in Suhaila format classes - and they *did* help my dancing considerably. But there are other aspects of that style that I don't care for. *shrug*
 
It means little if they are. Some of the VERY best dancers/teachers on the planet aren't certified by anybody - and several I can think of couldn't possibly be certified by anybody as they're head and shoulders above just about everybody! And if someone is certified by somebody else, that doesn't mean they're necessarily a good teacher - or the "right" teacher for YOU.

Watch a prospective teacher dance. If s/he has something you want, check out their class which may or may not work for YOU. They may be a better dancer than a teacher, or they may be an excellent instructor but just not resonate with YOU. There was one such that I knew who was a great dancer, and a great teacher, but her class didn't work for me the first time I tried it. Several years later, I had grown and she was fantastic for where I was then.

I've even been told that I myself should offer certifications in veilwork and finger cymbals. That's nice. Yea, I'm considered decent enough in those areas, but any certification I issued would be worth the paper it was printed on and nothing more! Who the Hell am I, and who am I kidding? Yea, I've been told by people who attended one of my infrequent workshops that they helped - that's GREAT! But that doesn't mean a "Zorba Certified (tm)" would mean a damn thing. I guess I could charge a bunch of money for it, but I really couldn't put my head on the pillow at nite if I did...
Well Horus teaches the American Tribal Style or an improvised version of it, which doesn't seem to include veilwork and zills. So, I will be wanting to learn how to play finger cymbals and how to dance with veils at some point.
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
Well Horus teaches the American Tribal Style or an improvised version of it, which doesn't seem to include veilwork and zills. So, I will be wanting to learn how to play finger cymbals and how to dance with veils at some point.
ATS includes Zills. Not particularly complex Zills, but Zills nontheless. I've never seen a Tribal dancer perform with a veil - I'm sure they're out there, I just haven't seen it. Veils don't lend themselves well to "cue and follow" dancing, although nothing's impossible! Veils are the most treacherous of all dance props!
 
American Cabaret Style was what I was originally interested in learning and still want to learn at some point. I do own at least one veil I'd like to learn how to move around while dancing.
 

Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
ATS includes Zills. Not particularly complex Zills, but Zills nontheless. I've never seen a Tribal dancer perform with a veil - I'm sure they're out there, I just haven't seen it. Veils don't lend themselves well to "cue and follow" dancing, although nothing's impossible! Veils are the most treacherous of all dance props!
They might use veil as a solo and for a full fusion but I've never seen it used to perform ATS either, but ATS is pretty much open to anything new as, as you know, created exclusively in the west.
 
I believe if it's not strictly ATS it's called ITS, or has that changed?
Don't know. What I've been learning is an improvised version of ATS, but not familiar with it being called ITS. I've heard of Fatchance Belly Dance which I think is another name it's going by now.
 

Daimona

Moderator
Don't know. What I've been learning is an improvised version of ATS, but not familiar with it being called ITS. I've heard of Fatchance Belly Dance which I think is another name it's going by now.
ATS, FatChanceBellyDance or FCBD are registered trademarks and have their own certification system, if I am correct. I don't think ITS are a registered trademark.
 

Ariadne

Well-known member
While certification isn't a big deal for dance teachers if your teacher says they're teaching ATS and aren't certified in ATS you may want to check and see what you are actually learning.
 
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