When your teacher says something inaccurate

[Moon]

My teacher told us in class that when dancing khaleegy, young unmarried women show off their hair but cover their nose with their hand to still keep it a bit shy and modest, something like that.

Now I know she probably didn't make that up herself. I've read enough stories here about myths that khaleegy is all about showing off your hair, costume and jewelry, but fortunately we have experts here like A'isha who told us the hair swishing is done to mimic the movement of water plants and the hand on the nose move is done to mimic pearl divers.

Now, what would you do when your teacher says something inaccurate? I want to avoid being a know-it-all so I just kind of stood there biting my tongue, but

 

[Shanazel]

You might engage her in conversation outside of class about the alternative explanation you've heard.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

Hmm, that is difficult. It's hard to know what to do in a situation like that without embarrassing your teacher and/or coming off looking like a smart-aleck (which I know you're not, Moon). If you've been with her for some time, then you probably have a pretty good read on her personality, and how she might react to something.

Maybe if she brings it up in class again, you might wait until after class and say something like, "Wow, that's really interesting what you said in class about khaleegee. Did you know that there's another school of thought about the origins of the hair flipping/nose covering..." and kinda go on from there. If she's the kind of teacher that is always looking to grow in knowledge herself, and is receptive to learning, even from a student, she might appreciate the new knowledge. However, if she's one of those teachers that thinks she knows more than her students, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

My daughter ran into similar problems in jr. high and high school. She would catch a teacher teaching something she knew was wrong, and she wasn't above correcting the teacher right there in class (she didn't get that from me, that's her dad in her O.O ). As a result, a couple of her teachers retaliated by giving her bad grades, even if her work was correct.

I'm not sure if anything I've said has been helpful. Anyone else have any ideas on how to handle something like this?

Whoops, we must have posted at the same time, Shanazel! You said in just a few words what took me three paragraphs to say! :lol:

 

[Yasmine Bint Al Nubia]

I have a similar story. When i began dancing, my teacher said that it was rude to place the palm of yoiur hand facing the audience..as in Arabic cultures it was considered rude and a sign of disrepect. I thought nothing of it and just accepted it as knowledge that my teacher was passing on to me as it was passed on to her.

Couple of years later, during a seminar that featured Aegela, another student asked her about it. The answer was no. However, a dancer shouldn't show the soles of her feet to the audience. At this point my teacher sweetly defended her position. It provided an opportunity for all of us to learn several things:
Even teachers can unknowingly pass on inaccurate information.
Our distance form the cultures of origin can be distorted and msinterpreted
We are ALL students of the dance and the culture and we should always continue to learn and grow. Toss out misinformation so we can make room for the truth.

I don't believed my teacher lied to us intentionally, she was passing on info form one perspective. Even so, a native of the culture may also have different interpretations of the same event......just keep an open mind!
Yasmine

 

[Kashmir]

experts here like A'isha who told us the hair swishing is done to mimic the movement of water plants and the hand on the nose move is done to mimic pearl divers.

This is a joke right - because dancers I know who have lived and worked on the Arabian Penisula laugh themself silly over that one!

 

[da Sage]

My teacher told us in class that when dancing khaleegy, young unmarried women show off their hair but cover their nose with their hand to still keep it a bit shy and modest, something like that.

Now I know she probably didn't make that up herself. I've read enough stories here about myths that khaleegy is all about showing off your hair, costume and jewelry, but fortunately we have experts here like A'isha who told us the hair swishing is done to mimic the movement of water plants and the hand on the nose move is done to mimic pearl divers.

Now, what would you do when your teacher says something inaccurate? I want to avoid being a know-it-all so I just kind of stood there biting my tongue, but

Did A'isha say that? I'm not sure I buy the "water theme" explanation. I'd love to hear the original source for that.

 

[jenc]

Why was anything done originally - sometimes hard to tell. Why do individual dancers do anything - may vary. I would be wary of catch all explanations for any kind of traditional dance.

I know Aisha says it is not to show off dresses because they crush them up in hand - but sometimes you show how rich you are, or how well dressed by being careless of gorgeous things!

Although I am NOT putting forward any theory myself - just possibilities

 

[karena]

For me it's really important to remember that there the idea of something being 'true' or not is trying to chase something that doesn't exist. When the dance evolved including hair flicks, everyone involved did not sit down and say OK let's decide why we are doing this and then that will be the only answer. It evolved, people will tell different stories, and people looking at it now will construct a version of the history that is meaningful to them now and in their context. So the important thing is not challenging a teacher that they are wrong, but like others have said being aware that there are different schools of thought, and maybe bringing it up as "I heard x" rather than "That's not true". There are things that have been repeated so many times on this forum so as to become 'true'. It doesn't mean they are. It also doesn't mean they're not either. People in any field don't agree, but some versions of the 'truth' dominate, for many reasons, many not rooted in evidence.

(Btw I'm not applying this in particular to Khaleegi anymore than anything else, just a general principle)

 

[Lydia]

This is a joke right - because dancers I know who have lived and worked on the Arabian Penisula laugh themself silly over that one!

Hi Kashmir,i am sorry to say but its treu!! the hair supose to look like the waves and the plants in the sea!!
In our days perhaps dancers,, wave ,,the hair for a differant reason??
It looks kinda cool....
But it the old days it was realy about the sea ...
that is also what the old local lady,s in the gulf telling me,i am sure they know best.....have a nice day Lydia

 

[Samira bint Aya]

Teacher’s inaccuracies

Moon, I have this problem a lot.

My teacher here in my island, Crete (not Maria Aya, she lives in Athens) is not very knowledgeable about belly dance technique. I never argue with her in class, and show acceptance of her as a teacher.

However, if a fellow student approaches me after the lesson to ask for advice as to how to execute a certain move, I explain the correct technique, irrespective of what the teacher was saying.

Our class from Crete are going to Nile Group next month. My teacher is in for a rude awakening!

 

[Samira bint Aya]

I have a similar story. When i began dancing, my teacher said that it was rude to place the palm of yoiur hand facing the audience..as in Arabic cultures it was considered rude and a sign of disrepect. I thought nothing of it and just accepted it as knowledge that my teacher was passing on to me as it was passed on to her.

Couple of years later, during a seminar that featured Aegela, another student asked her about it. The answer was no. However, a dancer shouldn't show the soles of her feet to the audience. At this point my teacher sweetly defended her position. It provided an opportunity for all of us to learn several things:
Even teachers can unknowingly pass on inaccurate information.
Our distance form the cultures of origin can be distorted and msinterpreted
We are ALL students of the dance and the culture and we should always continue to learn and grow. Toss out misinformation so we can make room for the truth.

I don't believed my teacher lied to us intentionally, she was passing on info form one perspective. Even so, a native of the culture may also have different interpretations of the same event......just keep an open mind!
Yasmine

Yasmine, this is really interesting..
Last week I was at a workshop and I asked the teacher if I could dance for him, so he could correct my technique.

After about 5 seconds he stopped me to correct me from showing the palms of my hands! :shok: He was Turkish though, so perhaps that’s where the difference lies…

 

[Marya]

Did A'isha say that? I'm not sure I buy the "water theme" explanation. I'd love to hear the original source for that.

In the thread about Khalegi and hair tossing, Aisha gives the source of this information.

Marya

 

[Aisha Azar]

Yes, A'isha did say that!!

Did A'isha say that? I'm not sure I buy the "water theme" explanation. I'd love to hear the original source for that.

Dear daSage,
Please go to my website and read "Are we confused yet?" and "Observations on Samri" in my library, in order to learn about my sources, etc. (Raqs Azar). Cassandra has used the "Are we confused yet?" paper in one of her classes for her conference that she has in Washington every year. I learned and am learning the dance from natives and I teach several versions and perform several that I do not teach very often.
I would be interested to know why the water theme explanation does not make sense to you...???

Dear Jen,
Most of the time, the ladies do not even wear the big thobe Neshel. Also, there are many styles of thobe and many are not embroidered. The embroidered ones we get here are mostly Hindi in origin, a new imported style that the women went for. If you want to see what the dresses REALLY looked like way back when, read "The Art of Arabian Costume; a Saidi Arabian Profile", by Heather Colyer Ross. She also covers Gulf costume. Another book on Arab clothing since the beginning of Islam is "Arab Dress; a short History", by Yedida Kalfon Stillman. My personal sources are Saudi and Gulf women and men that I have had the pleasure to know over the last 25 years or so. Also I got a alot of good info from an anthropologist, Melinda Mouna Smith, who lived in Kuwait for 7 years, married into a family there. I once sponsored her for a workshop and we gave a Kuwaiti style tea during her lecture. (I taught the dance, she did the lecture and organized the tea Kuwaiti fashion. It was a blast!!)


Finally, to everyone here, even the most careful and well researched of instructors will occasionally end up passing on info that is slightly off kilter or even downright incorrect. Try to realize that MOST teachers are trying very hard to do their best by the cultures and dances they are passing on, and also by their students.

Regards,
A'isha

 

[lizaj]

Moon, I have this problem a lot.

My teacher here in my island, Crete (not Maria Aya, she lives in Athens) is not very knowledgeable about belly dance technique. I never argue with her in class, and show acceptance of her as a teacher.

However, if a fellow student approaches me after the lesson to ask for advice as to how to execute a certain move, I explain the correct technique, irrespective of what the teacher was saying.

Our class from Crete are going to Nile Group next month. My teacher is in for a rude awakening!

I'm sorry to ask the obvious but why go to a teacher who does not have good technique?
And correcting students after class yourself..any teacher would be furious about that!
If she really is bad why do you not voice your concerns to her?
That would be better for her so she can learn anew and start again.
What technique are we talking about ?Basics. I presume and not stylistic differences.

 

[Aisha Azar]

Dance , etc.

I'm sorry to ask the obvious but why go to a teacher who does not have good technique?
And correcting students after class yourself..any teacher would be furious about that!
If she really is bad why do you not voice your concerns to her?
That would be better for her so she can learn anew and start again.
What technique are we talking about ?Basics. I presume and not stylistic differences.

Dear Lizaj,
I agree with you on all counts . Going to a teacher and learning incorrectly means that the student is in for a long time of unlearning bad habits. I get this often when students come to me from other teachers and it is frustrating for them and me!!
Also, if a person is still pretty much in the early phase of her dance life.... does she really KNOW enough to tell if a teacher is doing things incorrectly?? Unfortunately, in many cases, teachers who are not good do not want to hear about it, but what the student can do is suggest that a student who comes to her for advice should branch out and maybe study with another teacher as well, or even just another teacher.... and as you say, if the instructor is THAT bad, what attend the class herself?? I certainly would not.
Rrgards,
A'isha

 

[da Sage]

Dear daSage,
Please go to my website and read "Are we confused yet?" and "Observations on Samri" in my library, in order to learn about my sources, etc. (Raqs Azar). Cassandra has used the "Are we confused yet?" paper in one of her classes for her conference that she has in Washington every year. I learned and am learning the dance from natives and I teach several versions and perform several that I do not teach very often.
I would be interested to know why the water theme explanation does not make sense to you...???

I didn't say it didn't make sense, I said I wasn't sure I believed that explanation. The water theme doesn't seem like the most likely explanation, so I would need to hear it from a few trusted sources before I subscribe to that theory. But I am amused by the idea.

Your article "Are we confused yet" doesn't really pertain to the issue of what the Khaleegy movement is representational of, so I'm not sure why you referred me to it. You must have quite the costume collection!

 

[da Sage]

Hi Kashmir,i am sorry to say but its treu!! the hair supose to look like the waves and the plants in the sea!!
In our days perhaps dancers,, wave ,,the hair for a differant reason??
It looks kinda cool....
But it the old days it was realy about the sea ...
that is also what the old local lady,s in the gulf telling me,i am sure they know best.....have a nice day Lydia

Hi Lydia, thanks for this!

The whole story makes me wonder if there will be a time when people forget the origin of the "surfing" and "wipeout" moves that became popular when the Surfaris had their hit song. :lol:

 

[Shanazel]

My teacher here in my island, Crete (not Maria Aya, she lives in Athens) is not very knowledgeable about belly dance technique. I never argue with her in class, and show acceptance of her as a teacher.

However, if a fellow student approaches me after the lesson to ask for advice as to how to execute a certain move, I explain the correct technique, irrespective of what the teacher was saying.

Our class from Crete are going to Nile Group next month. My teacher is in for a rude awakening!

Add my voice to those wondering why a student would bother taking classes from a teacher who knows less about dance than the student. If you aren't happy with a teacher, find a different teacher. Hanging around a poor teacher, correcting her mistakes behind her back and anticipating her downfall at a public event is counterproductive, to say the least.

 

[Aisha Azar]

Dance etc.

I didn't say it didn't make sense, I said I wasn't sure I believed that explanation. The water theme doesn't seem like the most likely explanation, so I would need to hear it from a few trusted sources before I subscribe to that theory. But I am amused by the idea.

Your article "Are we confused yet" doesn't really pertain to the issue of what the Khaleegy movement is representational of, so I'm not sure why you referred me to it. You must have quite the costume collection!

Since I seem to be an untrustworthy source, I certainly would not take MY word for it for sure. Nor, I guess, any of the words of any of the people with whom I have discussed the dance for the last 25 years or so, because it is really their information and not mine that is in those two articles. The Confused article does give background in Khaliji if you know how to look for it. Movement, again, is only a part of the picture, just like in belly dance.
I have a khaliji costume collection that is over the top. I have everything from underdresses to abayas from Saudi and the Gulf, to different face veils from several locations, to Hindi style thobes, to Nejdi style thobes, a Yemeni costume around here somewhere except I can't find the hat., etc, etc, etc. I am probably just lying about all that though, and making stuff up since I am not a trustworthy source.

 

[jenc]

I don't think that anyone said you were an untrustworthy source. for my part all I said was that there may well be different reasons between generatinos and individual dancers. if historically they used not to like to show of their stuff - doesn't mean that that is not the motivatino of dancers now.