Money to be in a dance performance?

Aisha Azar · May 28, 2007

Payment

Dear Janaki,
While the Star of a performance may warrant more money, it does not have to be such an inequitable amount. Sometimes belly dance stars have 20-30 people in their band. The star is taking a %50 cut and the other 30 people..... without whom there again would be no show...and that seems pretty unfair to me. We ALL need to start beign awre of the contributions of our fellow artists. If dancer in the U.S. want to point fingers ast the musicians here for not giving us a fair break, then we need to understand that from the "other side of the tent" as my friend Ra'ed Azar says, as well. As for the Egyptian and other Arab public not respecting musicians, I would ahve to disagree. They seem to love their musicians and singers very much. For example, Omar Khorshid the famous guitarist, Hani Shakir, Amr Dieb, Feiruz, Oum Kulsoum, the singers, Mohammed Abdwahab who produced incredible music, Metcal Ghanawi the rebab player and singer, etc. Abdulmajid ABdulla and Talal Madah, two famous oudists/singers. These people are just a few of those who are revered in the Arab word
Regards,
A'isha

Outi · May 28, 2007

Yes, it's true, all of them are big stars, and people want to see them and listen their music. So they get the most of the money, not their band. Most of them are not performing with each other or with dancer or other stars. They are too expencive.

janaki · May 28, 2007

Hi A'isha,

I was told by my arab friends that a famous dancer makes more money than the musicians, no so famous one makes more or less the same as musicans. My drumming teacher is an egyptian and he used to play in a not so famous band. He told me this. Enormous inequitable amounts are NOY FAIR at all. I think you are a true artist to feel the way you feel. WOW, I commend you for this!!!Many many artists are so selfish and they like to bag as much money as possible. I never had an opportunity to perform with a full band yet, when I do it, I will dedicate the show to you and we the artists will split the money more or less equally. I seldom meet unselfish people. I am touched by your respect for the fellow artists.

We do live in a very unfair world. I would like see the day that everything is equal!!!

Cheers
Janaki

shimmy · May 28, 2007

bad news woman!

That's really not good karma at all from her. Have you thought of getting your own group together? Even if you're not a teacher, you could be the organizer and get one of the others to teach. I perform with a group for fun and that's what it should be. No one expects to get paid (although sometimes we are often lucky there), and we certainly don't pay to do the performance. Any extra rehearsals we need to do we just all get together and practise, we don't pay for that unless we have to pay for the venue, then we split the cost. Get rid of that teacher. How long have you and the other dancers been with her for? Have fun, I'm sure you'll find a great new teacher and group.

KuteNurse said:
I was chatting with another dancer after class last week. She said something that confirmed what I had already heard and had known. The instructor that I have been dancing with, in addition to charging the monthly fee's for dance class, charges her students $150.00 per dance to be in her performances. The student also purchases her costume. In addition, my instructor charges $15 dollars a ticket for the performance. Approximately 600 tickets were sold. She must be making a bundle. Is this common? To charge the student $150.00 per dance to be in a performance on top of all the other expenses he/she is already paying? It sounds insane to me. I am obviously changing instructors for good reasons not including her ridiculous fees. She does not teach proper posture for starters, she is mean to people in class if they are not catching onto a move, she yelled at my friend for something that was inappropriate, she is not organized and she jumps from move to move, without us even learning the move correctly in the first place. These are just a FEW complaints I have against her. I could go on and on....Ohhh! Her partner is an excellent dancer and teacher and she teaches a majority of her classes. She danced in the performance and she was clearly the best dancer there, but my instructor made a big deal about her daughter's dancing and she did not even recognize the other dancer for helping her out with her classes. Unbelieveable!

Aisha Azar · May 28, 2007

Payment, etc.

janaki said:
Hi A'isha,

I was told by my arab friends that a famous dancer makes more money than the musicians, no so famous one makes more or less the same as musicans. My drumming teacher is an egyptian and he used to play in a not so famous band. He told me this. Enormous inequitable amounts are NOY FAIR at all. I think you are a true artist to feel the way you feel. WOW, I commend you for this!!!Many many artists are so selfish and they like to bag as much money as possible. I never had an opportunity to perform with a full band yet, when I do it, I will dedicate the show to you and we the artists will split the money more or less equally. I seldom meet unselfish people. I am touched by your respect for the fellow artists.

We do live in a very unfair world. I would like see the day that everything is equal!!!

Cheers
Janaki

Dear Janaki,
....I think I'm going to cry.... Thank you!!! I do not think of it as being a special way to look at things; just as the way it should be. My feeling is that if we each do our bit to be as real with people as we want them to be with us, then we all contribute to it being a better planet to live on. I try to do what I consider to be my part... In my case that means dealing as fairly as possible with other artists. It doesn't always work out that fair is the best way to be and I do take that into consideration when I think it's necessary.
Regards,
A'isha

Lydia · May 28, 2007

helloooooooo,i did not want to reply to thisbecause i think money is such a yakky thing to talk about..and very personal aswell...i will tel you how it works in the uae...i feel a bit shy to talk about how much money i make a show,it is upsetting to me that i make in 1 hour the same amount that other people work for ,for 3 months....so please forgive that i can not exact tell you precies how much i am making ,i am to shy...but i wil tell you about the normal dancing market....... a normal dancer gets in a 5 star hotel from about 100 to 200 us dollar,,if she works on a daily base,the band get,s (depending the instrument) like keyboard violin anoun nai enz...around 80 to 100 dollars per show,the tabal the same...supporting drummers around 50 dollars per show or per night....If they go to private party,s the packet for dancer and 5 piece band is around 800 to 1000 dollar,that is for regular dancers,so not for people with a name...when you are known the price go,s for the dancer very high, and the band gets like dubbel or tripple from a normal hotel evening...
It realy depens on the people involved i see lately terrible things ,girls that come here and dance just for a hotelroom!! no salaris at all....the money comes form other ,,hobby,,s.....musicians that are ,,selling,, this girls is also very common lately..it become,s very much like a mafia..so not so nice to be honest ...so it realy depens where you are and who you are dealing with in this country....I have a good relations with all my band members,i can afford to pay them good because my salaris is good,i am the one that get the work not the musicians....so i am also the boss from the band and the one that pay,s everybody...in this way i can make sure everybody is paid fair...If i have my students performing with me, i pay them between 200 and 300 dollar per show ,per girl . that come,s from my own pocket...so this is how it go,s overhere in the desert...bdw....all the audiance i work for ..loves my musicians,i will make also sure during the show that all of them get,s his share of taksim,s and solo,s so the people can realy appriciate what they are doing...i am very much aware that they are my ,,engine,, the crowd is my petrol do!! So if a dancer thinks it is just a one ,,man,, show i think she will lose out ..i love my band they are like my brothers....Huggy,s Lydia

janaki · May 28, 2007

Hi Lydia,

I like the way you put it. The band is the engine, audience are petrol, if I may add..... the dancer is the driver!!!!!

We are so lucky and spoiled in HK I guess. We get paid really really well especially if you look middleeastern. I agree with you about cheap dancers. Here also , we have belly dancers??? from other countires dance for free in sleazy bars and night clubs and get business through prostitution.

I like the way, you allow the band members to play taxims to show their individual skills. I am sure it makes them very special!!! Bravo Lydia!!!!

Cheers
Janaki

Tikvah · May 29, 2007

Eshta said:
Wow, that's outrageous!

Do many students cough up?! I guess they must do, otherwise she wouldn't get away with it.

Pity really. Is this the norm in the area? I've never heard of anything like this before. What do other local teachers do? Or are there no other local teachers, and this is how she gets away with it?

That isn't the norm in that area....she just happens to be the most visible BD teacher, and most vocal, unfortunately. She was my first dance teacher, and it's sad to say that this behavior is actually worse than when I danced with her!!

Tikvah · May 29, 2007

da Sage said:
She's not out-and-out defrauding anyone, she's just charging unreasonable prices, for things she shouldn't be charging for at all. I'm not sure that such complaints will do anything.

The only thing that will get through to this woman is if everyone refuses to pay her fees. Why not organize a friendly student dance night where you can perform for each other? You don't have to invite Satanteacher if you don't want to.

Your city has a wonderful Community Dance Show, usually in March and October....ask Debbie about them once you switch over

I've performed in one, and it's great. All the dancers are super supportive of each other, plus you get to dance in a wonderful venue at the local university! Even if you don't perform, they always need volunteers....especially to help plaster posters around town since "Satanteacher" likes to tear them down

Tikvah · May 29, 2007

KuteNurse said:
The instructor called it a ribcage dance. It was all upper body isolations in a dance. Chest slide, chest circle...shoulder shimmies etc...

That sounds terribly boring....but knowing that teacher, she probably made it so it was "sexy to the men" as she used to say all the time.

I'm actually impressed that she's teaching props...that's a pretty new one for her.

Aisha Azar · May 29, 2007

What's her name??

Dear Group,
Is there anyone among you who would be willing to divulge her name?
Reqards,
A'isha

taheya · May 29, 2007

My thoughts exactly aisha...who is she?

Aniseteph · May 29, 2007

He he he I might have just found out by the power of Google! (I should get a life, really I should...). Try belly dance classes Duluth.

We've been told there are 2 instructors in Duluth, and she isn't the one who's real name is Debbie (who is also listed on this site under a stage name). There's a hit with both of them teaching at the same place, and there's the mother-daughter thing there too, so the finger of suspicion points... :think:

PS. Just found a website too, yet another abysmal bellydance website, complete with horizontal scrolling again. If people can't do a nice job of it why oh why do they bother?

Tikvah · May 29, 2007

I'll just say it....her name is Eman. Both she and Debbie teach classes through the school district's community education program, but she does it just to get people into her studio. She said she hates teaching the community education classes (said when I danced with her in 2004).

I could go on and on about her, but I'll just say that I went toe to toe with her once before a show because a few of us exited the stage improperly. She was threatening to not let us perform at the next show (we did a 5pm and a 7pm show) and I got in a yelling match with her backstage :-D

belly_dancer · May 29, 2007

Dear Belly_dancer,
Let me put it this way. If I know that anyone on stage is getting paid, then I get paid, too. I STILL don't get why the drummer is being paid and the dancers have to pay to perform. I do Student Nights, which is about the same as a hafla. Anyone who is appearing on stage does not pay to get in.
Their family members, friends, etc, DO pay to get in, which usually covers rental expenses, etc.
Without those student dancers, there is NO HAFLA!!!!
Regards,
A'isha

(Quote from Sedonia R)
Well, it depends on what is meant by hafla. If it is a party that is primarily for dancers that are going to be dancing for each other, then I can see charging an admission that covers refreshments and musicians.

If it is a formal performance with tickets sold to the general public, then I can't see charging the dancers to pay the musicians.

A'isha Azar said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by belly_dancer
before I say more.... I must state that CHARGING students to perform (esp $!50 is totally jaw dropping!!!!!!) I would NEVER even consider that! (I have charged at haflas, & then used that money to pay the drummer!!!!!)

Dear Belly_ dancer

.... I am confused here. Is there some reason why you would charge the dancers, yet pay the drummer???

Regards,
A'isha

MY (belly_dancer) answer....
(sorry if confusing w/ the quotes..... typing/comptuers I am still working on!!!)

yes a hafla is of course a bunch of dancers dancing for each other.... there is no "audience" except for each other.... (& assorted children of dancers)

& usually we have our cd's...
in this area there are very few professional drummers (not to mention ME musicians!) & they all charge (as would I)..
& I would never ask them to play at our party for free ("for the exposure".... especially love that one... hey someone want to do a new thread.... about how many times people have wanted you dance for "exposure" ALONE!!!!!) (is it an outside event??? will I get a tan??? hehehe sorry couldn't help myself.... but I am digressing!!)

so yeah.... A'isha... Sedonia is correct about the hafla I am describing....
in that it is a dancer (usually of all levels) party.... where, if we all chip in, we get to experience (& "practice") dancing with live music...

I also agree with you ... somewhere in this post (you said).... about how US dancers somehow usually get paid less than musicians....
that sucks & is not "fair"..... (especially when they are more easily "replaced" (cd+ good sound system) then us!!!)
but again as someone else said, depends what the focus of the show is... (a primarily musical concert? or primarily a dance show???)...
I try to always be honest in these situations..... (dear drummer, "I am having a dance show... we can use cd's no problem, however I have "X" amount in my budget if you are interested in performing live, I can offer you that" (plus of course "exposure"!!!!! (just shoot me now!!!))
that way, they know what is up, are "invited" (cause god knows, don't want hurt feelings, etc)... & can make a decision based on what is up (if they have no gig... then they are making "something" but if something more lucrative (for them) comes up, hey.... we still have our cd's!!!!!)
totally sucks that the arts are not more valued....

Reen.Blom · May 30, 2007

Lydia dubai said:
helloooooooo,i did not want to reply to thisbecause i think money is such a yakky thing to talk about..and very personal aswell...i will tel you how it works in the uae...i feel a bit shy to talk about how much money i make a show,it is upsetting to me that i make in 1 hour the same amount that other people work for ,for 3 months....so please forgive that i can not exact tell you precies how much i am making ,i am to shy...but i wil tell you about the normal dancing market....... a normal dancer gets in a 5 star hotel from about 100 to 200 us dollar,,if she works on a daily base,the band get,s (depending the instrument) like keyboard violin anoun nai enz...around 80 to 100 dollars per show,the tabal the same...supporting drummers around 50 dollars per show or per night....If they go to private party,s the packet for dancer and 5 piece band is around 800 to 1000 dollar,that is for regular dancers,so not for people with a name...when you are known the price go,s for the dancer very high, and the band gets like dubbel or tripple from a normal hotel evening...
It realy depens on the people involved i see lately terrible things ,girls that come here and dance just for a hotelroom!! no salaris at all....the money comes form other ,,hobby,,s.....musicians that are ,,selling,, this girls is also very common lately..it become,s very much like a mafia..so not so nice to be honest ...so it realy depens where you are and who you are dealing with in this country....I have a good relations with all my band members,i can afford to pay them good because my salaris is good,i am the one that get the work not the musicians....so i am also the boss from the band and the one that pay,s everybody...in this way i can make sure everybody is paid fair...If i have my students performing with me, i pay them between 200 and 300 dollar per show ,per girl . that come,s from my own pocket...so this is how it go,s overhere in the desert...bdw....all the audiance i work for ..loves my musicians,i will make also sure during the show that all of them get,s his share of taksim,s and solo,s so the people can realy appriciate what they are doing...i am very much aware that they are my ,,engine,, the crowd is my petrol do!! So if a dancer thinks it is just a one ,,man,, show i think she will lose out ..i love my band they are like my brothers....Huggy,s Lydia

Bravo Lydia, you are a sweetie!

KuteNurse · May 30, 2007

Tikvah said:
I'll just say it....her name is Eman. Both she and Debbie teach classes through the school district's community education program, but she does it just to get people into her studio. She said she hates teaching the community education classes (said when I danced with her in 2004).

I could go on and on about her, but I'll just say that I went toe to toe with her once before a show because a few of us exited the stage improperly. She was threatening to not let us perform at the next show (we did a 5pm and a 7pm show) and I got in a yelling match with her backstage :-D

Thanks Tikvah! I also want to add that Debbie teaches completely seperate from Eman and she is a genuine sweetheart who loves her students and she does not take advantage of them the way Eman does financially. Debbie also teaches the moves correctly and makes sure each student knows how to do them before she moves on to the next move.

I am sorry she got mad at you for something so silly at your first performance Tikvah...That is really terrible. You are completely correct when you say she teaches community education to get students into her studio and make more money off of them. I am glad you are dancing with better instructors also. I can't wait to start my new class. It is like I waited forever to get the courage up to take a class, then this happens with this teacher, knowing she is not teaching correctly, then having to put up with her for 5 weeks and listen to her abuse students verbally. Now I am free and I can learn from someone who wants to teach!

KuteNurse · May 30, 2007

Aniseteph said:
He he he I might have just found out by the power of Google! (I should get a life, really I should...). Try belly dance classes Duluth.

We've been told there are 2 instructors in Duluth, and she isn't the one who's real name is Debbie (who is also listed on this site under a stage name). There's a hit with both of them teaching at the same place, and there's the mother-daughter thing there too, so the finger of suspicion points... :think:

PS. Just found a website too, yet another abysmal bellydance website, complete with horizontal scrolling again. If people can't do a nice job of it why oh why do they bother?

HA! You are so clever Aniseteph:clap::clap::clap:

Ps...Debbie is the nice one.

Amulya · May 30, 2007

Didn't read the whole thread, but the just the first post: man that is crazy! Sure no student is willing to do this. Here in Australia I have noticed some teachers do the same; they let performers (students and pros) pay an entrance ticket. I think that's silly.

bellymom · May 30, 2007

I would find another instructor it doesn't sound like a healthy environment for learning to dance or for performing.

My 16 yr. old daughter takes lessons and dances in her teacher's troupe. For the N.Y. / N.J. area we pay a very reasonable fee for lessons and $15.00 per rehearsal, which this year are twice a month for 3-4 months before begining performances. The performances don't cost us anything. Since we supply the costume the teacher makes an effort to choose costumes that won't break the bank. In exchange my daughter is being taught the art of Belly Dancing, and is gradually being introduced to the business of being a professional belly dancer, how to perform, how to choreograph a dance, and much more. The teacher is always positive giving constructive advice and praise when appropriate. There is not one drama queen in the troupe, the teacher choose her troupe carefully and made it clear she would not tolerate negative behavior.

Money to be in a dance performance?

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