Arab Spring and women's issues

Ariadne

Ariadne

Well-known member
A blog reply: Tahrir Spirit: I don't really think they hate us!

I think you find misogynists in every society. The real question is whether or not the laws give women a choice. I couldn't care less what a culture thinks women should do as long as the women can choose for themselves and have legal protection from those who wouldn't let them. Sadly when it's all you know it's hard to see that it can be any different.
 
Farasha Hanem

Farasha Hanem

New member
We had a big discussion on this forum some years ago on this topic, but I don't know if the thread still exists. We lost some of our threads when the forum got hacked a few years back. Let me see if that thread might still be around...

EDIT: The thread I was thinking of still exists. Here's the link:

http://bellydanceforums.net/debate/4802-amazing-video-about-women-saudi-arabia.html


I think Ariadne is right, when a certain way of life is all one knows, it is hard to imagine that life can be any other way.

The question I have is, is the consensus that women are property the way all of Islam believes? I understand that there are different sects of Islam, and if I remember my reading, only two are violent. Of course, my memory may be totally faulty.

My personal knowledge of Islam and it's people, admittedly, is very lacking. I'm striving to understand its culture and attitudes, because my grandmother taught me that there is good and bad in all groups of people, whether it's a race, country, or religion. I guess you could say I don't want to throw out the baby with the bath water, and have an erroneous, sweeping, generalized view of anyone. I do believe that wrongs should be righted, no mistake about that. I just don't want to ever unjustly pass judgement on anyone, whether one person, or an entire nation of people. On the other hand, I also don't want to have a naive, childish view of the world. Please help me to find the truth.

I hope I made sense, because at times, I feel very confused as to what to think or believe. :(
 
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walladah

walladah

New member
If you watch the videos and look at the photos of Arab spring

you will realise that probably half of the protesters are women, some veiled, some unveiled, but women are all over the place, even in moments where police brutality erupts.

On the other hand, we know that women are severely attacked by authorities (officially and undercover) in those same countries, which means that probably it is not Islam to explain this, but internal politics.

The impression i have from all this material published for more than one year now on Arab spring is
a) women participate in the public debate and demand to improve common lives for all
b) their men (husbands, fathers, brothers, boyfriends, neighbours) do not seem to be bothered by this. Actually, i think that women's involvement keep those men in the streets, in the sense that men also know that this is a global effort, not just the case of "few, educated, unemployed young men" as both Arab and western media want us to believe it is.
c) the authorities are bothered by this very much and this is probably they attack women and abused them in case they are detained or arrested. They hope that if women are closed back at homes, men will follow them and be dishearted about fighting for a better future. As long as women are in the streets, men will never stop demonstrating in the streets.

THen hate is related to political position and stance. I do not think that Arab men hate Arab women or women in general. Yes, some of them might hate them, but this happens to christian countries, western countries, "modern" countries too. Do not forget that violence against women is also increasing in "western developed" countries, without the local authorities adopting any active policies to stop the phenomenon, or they might support it in unofficial ways.

As for Islam, well, first as far as i know, it does not consider women as possession of men, quite the opposite. Islam has been the monotheist religion who has integrated some rules to show that women are human beings and not possession of anyone, but children of God.

According to official religious texts, Islam protects women much more than what christian religion does. This does not mean that Islam is not a religion well embedded in partiarchy, but so is christianity. Let alone that christianity considers women the vessel of evil, which never happens in official Islamic texts.

Perversions of religion exist in all religous dogmas - i could write a book about what happens in christian religion and its perversions to exploit and suppress women. However, i can tell that the same misogynist attitudes some people see in islamic or arab societies, those same exist in all mediterranean, depending on the community we are talking about. Do not forget that child marriages existed in christian countries well till about 100 years ago, not only among poor people, but also among European royalty.

Then, i think that the first text is rather unfair to women and men that resist women's suppression in arab countries and it is also unfair to say that because we do not live there and they are "different" ,we are sure that all women are unhappy. No, the Arab spring pictures women smiling in demos.
 
khanjar

khanjar

New member
Tradition has a lot to answer for, ingrained stuff from the past is often hard to shift and can only be achieved properly and naturally in a slow manner, that is legislate to change views, let the old guard know the past has gone and so their mentality will die with them, welcome the next generation who know different and so on.

But one thing strikes me as to the misogynistic, what are they in the world of men respected as men of substance or not and with that, I understand the cruelty some exhibit on others is a result of their own inadequacies, the seeking of a weaker target to make them feel better about themselves in a perverse way.

And religion, religion has too much to answer for in our modern world, it is why I rail against it, for I understand at it's worst, it is a tool to be used for mind and there people control, a case of if you want to be in our gang, get rid of your individual thought and think and do what you are told. People as a rule tend to like to belong, not stand against, because standing against or even standing neutral make one a target for gangs which is quite simply the pack mentality, no better than animals, pure primitive action, and we think we have evolved ?

We will not have evolved until we rid the rubbish from the past, the inequality, the racism and the war, until then, we are just as primitive as we always were, but don't trust in leaders to change us, they have other agenda, if we want change, it comes from us the plebs.
 
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jenc

jenc

New member
I knew a Britisn muslim woman, born in Bangladesh but came over as a baby. She told me that Islamic law says she should marry who she pleases but her parents and all her society said she had to marry someone chosen by her parents. It is not necessarily the Koran - but what has been made of it later which oppresses later.

Muhammed's first wife was an older woman with her own business (as a widow).
 
Zorba

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
Oh sigh...

Please don't get me started on the worldwide Monotheistic suppression of people everywhere - ESPECIALLY women - but men too. Grrrrrr....

What bothers me more than anything, are women who embrace these philosophies of slavery and hate. Especially in the West where they "should know better".
 
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