Are bindis as big of a problem as I've read?

[Farasha Hanem]

The problem is that bellydance is not as old as a lot of people think---it's only about 150 years old or so, give or take. The notion that bellydance is an "ancient fertility goddess dance" has no historical basis in antiquity, but does make "good advertising" for bellydance classes and workshops, though misleading. Bellydance is based on folkloric dances such as baladi, sha'abi, Raqs assaya, Haggala, Maleya luff, etc., and are more hip-driven than say, folk dances from India, which are more feet and hand driven.

Bollywood is indeed influenced by many sources, based on classical Indian dances such as Kathak, Bhangra, and Bharatanatyam, and can contain elements of bellydance, and even Western genres such as hip-hop.

I recommend Shira's web site, http://www.shira.net, which contains excellent articles about the history of bellydance, and more. There are many members here who also are teachers, and a number of them have had the wonderful opportunity of studying bellydance abroad in the countries of origin. They are always more than happy to answer people's questions about bellydance.

Whoops, I believe we have diverted somewhat from the original topic....

 

[Kashmir]

I was watching some Bollywood-related, dance-related vid some time back, can't recall exactly what it was now, and the programme's Indian host, a lady, was saying something like 'Indian dance (or was it Bollywood dance?) is heavily influenced by Middle Eastern belly dance ...'

Was quite surprising for me, cos all the while I thought it was the other way around.

No - Bollywood is influenced by "belly dance". Bollywood is a very new style. However, Indian dance and "belly dance" are independent - and very different - dance styles.

 

[Zorba]

The problem is that bellydance is not as old as a lot of people think---it's only about 150 years old or so, give or take. The notion that bellydance is an "ancient fertility goddess dance" has no historical basis in antiquity, but does make "good advertising" for bellydance classes and workshops, though misleading. Bellydance is based on folkloric dances such as baladi, sha'abi, Raqs assaya, Haggala, Maleya luff, etc., and are more hip-driven than say, folk dances from India, which are more feet and hand driven.

It depends on what your definition of "is" is. The above comes across as self-contradictory. Yes, our modern "Belly Dance" as a performance art is about 120 years old if you count the Chicago world's faire as the starting point - but the movements themselves are timeless.

 

[Kashmir]

It depends on what your definition of "is" is. The above comes across as self-contradictory. Yes, our modern "Belly Dance" as a performance art is about 120 years old if you count the Chicago world's faire as the starting point - but the movements themselves are timeless.

The movements are timeless - because people only have so many ways to move. But as a dance style with a set way to interpret music - that you even use music - is not. Otherwise hula and salsa become "belly dance" - because they move the hips and the Highland Fling becomes "ballet" because it moves teh legs.

 

[Roshanna]

I was watching some Bollywood-related, dance-related vid some time back, can't recall exactly what it was now, and the programme's Indian host, a lady, was saying something like 'Indian dance (or was it Bollywood dance?) is heavily influenced by Middle Eastern belly dance ...'

Was quite surprising for me, cos all the while I thought it was the other way around.

There isn't evidence for any significant Indian influence on Middle Eastern dance. And as others have said, bollywood is a recent dance form that pulls from many influences, but bellydance is at best a small influence on it (and from what I've seen, even when bollywood films have 'bellydance' scenes, the dancing itself does not tend to look very much like bellydance).

Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation and wishful thinking out there (including in published books, and in things said by people you would hope would know better). So it's best not to believe any claim about the dance unless it's backed up by convincing evidence (e.g. photos, videos, eyewitness accounts).

 

[Zorba]

The movements are timeless - because people only have so many ways to move. But as a dance style with a set way to interpret music - that you even use music - is not. Otherwise hula and salsa become "belly dance" - because they move the hips and the Highland Fling becomes "ballet" because it moves teh legs.

This starts becoming semantics, and I avoid semantic arguments at all costs.

 

[Shanazel]

Too late, Zorba: 'twas you that began the semantics-related part of the discussion in the first place.

Kashmir's comment is dead on point. Concede the point, argue it, or just quietly retire from the discussion, but don't try to take back a card you played yourself.

 

[Roshanna]

Yes, our modern "Belly Dance" as a performance art is about 120 years old if you count the Chicago world's faire as the starting point

I'd have taken the starting point as the opening of dedicated entertainment venues in Cairo around the turn of the century, and the changes in dance that resulted from moving from home/street performances to a staged entertainment setting. The Chicago world's fair didn't have any particular importance to the development of Raqs Sharqi (i.e. recognisably modern bellydance) in Egypt, and the dancers who performed there would have been dancing in the styles of the late 1800s. The World's fairs are relevant to how the dance has historically been perceived in the United States, but not really to how the dance itself has evolved, unless you want to take an extremely US-centric view (and a lot of us here on OD are not in the US ).

And I have to agree with Kashmir that a dance is far more than just a set of movements.

 

[Zorba]

Too late, Zorba: 'twas you that began the semantics-related part of the discussion in the first place.

Kashmir's comment is dead on point. Concede the point, argue it, or just quietly retire from the discussion, but don't try to take back a card you played yourself.

What. Ever.

 

[Shanazel]

My daughter used to say that (complete with periods) in similar circumstances. Gave me a twinge of nostalgia, it did.

Are there other cultures that use items similar to bindis sheerly for decoration? Back in the 18th century, there was a fad in Europe and the wealthier parts of the New World for black patches that were supposed to mimic beauty marks.