Beledi beledi beledi

[Emma_Williams]

right i am really confused. When someone dances beledi what does this mean? I thought beledi was a type of music in belly dance. Please outline for me what is typical of beledi, dress, key moves etc etc

Thanks

 

[Emma_Williams]

ie what makes this beledi and not just raqs or egyptian....please point out what distinguishes it. I am trying to learn lol but tres confused

 

[jenc]

To repeat what I posted before in another thread

Baladi Progression (or baladi taxim, if you prefer) - BELLYDANCE CENTRAL - Everything Belly Dance! Welcome to BHUZ - Biggest Online BellyDancing Community

Looking for Baladi Progression vid clip - BELLYDANCE CENTRAL - Everything Belly Dance! Welcome to BHUZ - Biggest Online BellyDancing Community

Best beledi footage? - BELLYDANCE CENTRAL - Everything Belly Dance! Welcome to BHUZ - Biggest Online BellyDancing Community

Hope these are helpful. there was another thread on Bhuz that I can't find yet, discussing baladi but I have posted a request for info on that thread

 

[Kashmir]

Literally "beledi" means "of my community" - in practice it refers to either Egypt as a whole or the lower class communities - ie upper class people do not refer to themselves as "beledi".

There is quite a range of beledi music - depending on time and place - from the mawals, to the beledi progression, to old pop songs, songs from old movies and now shaabi. What it does not include are Orientale orchstrated pieces or very western style music.

"Beledi dance" is even more complex as beledi dance can be any native dance from Egypt. I even know of one Egyptian born teacher who includes raqs sharqi in that bag.

Usually it applies to non-westernized dance and folk dance - so you are looking for a covered belly, simple arms and hands, more often flat feet, less isolation and variety in the movement vocabulary. Moves in some styles are also larger than raqs sharqi - but not always. Often more "bounce"; less idealized posture.

Some use the the term "beledi" to just apply to "urban beledi" ie dance styles of the urban working class - no other folk styles included. Some typical urban beledi moves would include a backwards hip eight, bust shimmies, a vertical hip eight that comes in on the forward bit, flat footed hip lifts. But again it depends on the time and place for the music. You dance differently to an old style mawal to something a bit bouncier like Taht il Shibbak or more modern like Shokolata. But all should be reasonably simple, covered and danced with an understanding of the lyrics (with an odd appropriate gesture thrown in).

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Kashmir gave a very good explanation. I know that right now, it may seem confusing, but in time it will all make sense.

Basically it all depends on the context that you're using the word. As she said, Baladi can refer to the urban social dance of the ordinary people. As performance, it can be the simple version of the dance closest to the social dance. Basically, its the way dance was performed before the theatrical bells and whistles of Sharki were added in the 1930's.

Musically, there is what is known as Tet Baladi. Its a musical style in which there is an instrumental solo, often times an accordion, which starts out very slow and gradually builds in speed and complexity. But then of course, there are there are the urban and rural folk songs. Experience will teach you better than anything else really.

 

[adiemus]

As a relative newbie to getting familiar with the dance styles, I can say that it's been quite a challenge to find 'good' examples of beledi and good descriptions on the internet. There are so many examples of what is NOT beledi, and the 'definition' of beledi is so broad, depending on your viewpoint and context, and so few sources that are reliable, that it's not an easy ask to get your head around.

While I acknowledge that probably the best exponents are out there dancing, and that you can't learn from the internet or a book or DVD's exclusively (there's nothing like an amazing teacher!) - to supplement and to get some sense of beledi, the internet is probably the most accessible way to get 'experience' (esp. if you're in the boondocks!).

But so far, it's been a pretty fraught experience for me, and I'm grateful to the people who have put up threads and added to the knowledge that is available, but it's difficult sifting out the accurate from the inaccurate.

If there is someone who has experience and knowledge and is prepared to collect together some recognised information on beledi, I'd be the first to go and absorb it. Speaking for myself, I don't want to appear dumb and ask ignorant questions, nor monopolise teaching time to ask about beledi if there is some other way to at least get me started. (Actually I think that applies to learning anything!) I also learn best by seeing and seeing over and again rather than hearing or doing just once. I don't think I'm alone in this - so my plea is, I suppose, if you do have reliable knowledge, and you have the time/inclination, share your knowledge via the internet so some of the crappy info can get lost. Otherwise it's difficult to be critical of people who rely on what's on the internet and get it wrong.

I guess I'm just sharing my sense of confusion that Tribal Butterfly is clearly feeling by putting up this thread! And my grateful thanks to those who do share so readily online.

 

[Pirika Repun]

right i am really confused. When someone dances beledi what does this mean? I thought beledi was a type of music in belly dance. Please outline for me what is typical of beledi, dress, key moves etc etc

Thanks

I think not only baladi, but most of Egyptian style of dance is "feeling" not just movements, dress or music. Like both very knowledgeable teachers Tarik and Kashmir explained baladi is more complex than just a movements or dress. I'm keep learning from Tarik, and fortunately, here in NYC, we have some Arabic clubs, so I can go there and watch people. When they dance, they don't think about movements or dress or steps, but just what they feel from the music and move their bodies. Body not move for music, but music make their body moves. I always watch people and how they feel the music and move their body. Also you can tell some one who learn "Belly dance" in the class or some one who learn how to dance from their family.

It's hard to explain, but if you have chance to go to Arabic club or some Arabic community to watch them dance, you will get it eventually. Also watch YouTube for not only professional dancers (dance on the stage), but watch ordinal people dance on the street or at the wedding, you will see the feelings and difference from the Raks Sharki. However, pretty good professional dancer can do social dance (baladi, or/and shabbi) on stage with professional attitude if you know what I mean. (I hope I pass the baladi test from Tarik )

 

[Tarik Sultan]

As a relative newbie to getting familiar with the dance styles, I can say that it's been quite a challenge to find 'good' examples of beledi and good descriptions on the internet. There are so many examples of what is NOT beledi, and the 'definition' of beledi is so broad, depending on your viewpoint and context, and so few sources that are reliable, that it's not an easy ask to get your head around.

While I acknowledge that probably the best exponents are out there dancing, and that you can't learn from the internet or a book or DVD's exclusively (there's nothing like an amazing teacher!) - to supplement and to get some sense of beledi, the internet is probably the most accessible way to get 'experience' (esp. if you're in the boondocks!).

But so far, it's been a pretty fraught experience for me, and I'm grateful to the people who have put up threads and added to the knowledge that is available, but it's difficult sifting out the accurate from the inaccurate.

If there is someone who has experience and knowledge and is prepared to collect together some recognised information on beledi, I'd be the first to go and absorb it. Speaking for myself, I don't want to appear dumb and ask ignorant questions, nor monopolise teaching time to ask about beledi if there is some other way to at least get me started. (Actually I think that applies to learning anything!) I also learn best by seeing and seeing over and again rather than hearing or doing just once. I don't think I'm alone in this - so my plea is, I suppose, if you do have reliable knowledge, and you have the time/inclination, share your knowledge via the internet so some of the crappy info can get lost. Otherwise it's difficult to be critical of people who rely on what's on the internet and get it wrong.

I guess I'm just sharing my sense of confusion that Tribal Butterfly is clearly feeling by putting up this thread! And my grateful thanks to those who do share so readily online.

Yes it can be confusing, but just remember, Raks Sharki developed out of the Beladi style, which is the social dance of the ordinary people. Prior to the slicked up nightclub style, (Sharki), all professional dancers performed in this style. There was very little to nothing at all that separated them from the ordinary guests at a wedding, expect that they were being paid specifically to dance and sing. It wasn't till the late 19th century that they even began to develop a costume.

Now understand that Sharki and baladi often merge. The reason being that its quite common for the dance to either do a baladi themed routine in the course of a performance, or they will include a baladi section in their Sharki routine, usually somewhere towards the end going into a drum solo. This is when they come back to the roots so to speak and dance in the style of the ordinary people. These are some clips that will help familiarize you. The first one has a dancer and an ordinary person at a street wedding. They start off dancing to a tet baladi, which then goes into Shabbi music. The interesting thing is the dancer is dancing on the rhythm and the lady in the yellow is dancing more on the melody responding to the texture and mood of the music. I'll see what else I can find later. I'll answer any questions if I can.

 

[teela]

For those of us who do not get a chance to go to places for workshops, there is a lovely DVD out by Ranya Ranee. Its a 2 DVD set where she talks about the Baladi style of dance. She discusses the sections of the music with a live band, the moves you would make for each section and the male and female parts etc. It great

 

[Pirika Repun]

For the dancers (not ordinal people's social dance) I heard some one said in the other thread, that when dance baladi, real baladi woman and educated dancers wear baladi dress or galabeya but NOT two piece costume. However, I saw Ranya's baladi video clip, and also live stage, she wore more like Sharki type of costume than baladi dress. I saw her wear red baladi dress and performed baladi, and she was really great.

Anyway, here is my question. Is this acceptable to wear two pieces costume when perform deeeeeep baladi (not like pop music type baladi)? I understand that if dancer chose baladi middle of their Oriental routine, but still kind of feel strange to see fancy two piece costume with baladi though. If this is only baladi peice, it better to wear baladi dress or galabeya right? How about high heel shoes? Again, I understand if this is middle of Oriental routine with bedra and high heels, but usually baladi and high heels don't go together right? I said before baladi is not costume, or moves but more feeling, so maybe it doesn't matter about dress? Just I don't feel right.

Little off topic. I feel the same way for assaya/saidi performance. For me, when you perform assaya/saidi I prefer to wear galabeya (or maybe baladi dress for me. I love galabeya!) but I saw many dancers perform with tow piece costume. Again, is this okay if their assaya/saidi is part of their Oriental routine? Of maybe have to separate baladi and assaya from Sharki routine if possible? I personally want to see separate baladi, saidi and sharki routines if possible, but this is just me.

PS. I like lady in the yellow that Tarik's post of first video. Some reason I feel from her then (professiona? hired) dancer.

 

[adiemus]

Grat clips Tarik! Now that's what I call dancing (especially the first one!) and it's a lot like what I see myself doing when the music's on and I'm just playing about. Not very structured, not a lot of wavey arms, and the movements are quite raw and real. If you can find more examples of this it really really helps visual learners like me!

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Grat clips Tarik! Now that's what I call dancing (especially the first one!) and it's a lot like what I see myself doing when the music's on and I'm just playing about. Not very structured, not a lot of wavey arms, and the movements are quite raw and real. If you can find more examples of this it really really helps visual learners like me!

I know what you mean. I'm a very visual learner also. I'm really busy today, but I'll see what I can find later tonight. Its really hard to find clips of ordinary women dancing on youtube.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

For the dancers (not ordinal people's social dance) I heard some one said in the other thread, that when dance baladi, real baladi woman and educated dancers wear baladi dress or galabeya but NOT two piece costume. However, I saw Ranya's baladi video clip, and also live stage, she wore more like Sharki type of costume than baladi dress. I saw her wear red baladi dress and performed baladi, and she was really great.

Anyway, here is my question. Is this acceptable to wear two pieces costume when perform deeeeeep baladi (not like pop music type baladi)? I understand that if dancer chose baladi middle of their Oriental routine, but still kind of feel strange to see fancy two piece costume with baladi though. If this is only baladi peice, it better to wear baladi dress or galabeya right? How about high heel shoes? Again, I understand if this is middle of Oriental routine with bedra and high heels, but usually baladi and high heels don't go together right? I said before baladi is not costume, or moves but more feeling, so maybe it doesn't matter about dress? Just I don't feel right.

Little off topic. I feel the same way for assaya/saidi performance. For me, when you perform assaya/saidi I prefer to wear galabeya (or maybe baladi dress for me. I love galabeya!) but I saw many dancers perform with tow piece costume. Again, is this okay if their assaya/saidi is part of their Oriental routine? Of maybe have to separate baladi and assaya from Sharki routine if possible? I personally want to see separate baladi, saidi and sharki routines if possible, but this is just me.

PS. I like lady in the yellow that Tarik's post of first video. Some reason I feel from her then (professiona? hired) dancer.

Its very common to dance on Baladi songs in an Oriental routine.



Sometimes they will do a whole routine from start to finish using Baladi music.



However, when they do a separate section, like their 2nd routine, they may choose to do a Baladi theme, where they will wear the baladi dress and may or may not also do a cane dance as part of that section. However, I have seen dancers use the cane in their Oriental outfits as well.

Here's the thing though, Egyptians do not always concern themselves with putting neat little labels on things. They know what is what and understand what is done as the dancers artistic taste at the moment. What I have never seen though is a dancer coming out to do an Oriental in a Baladi dress, but that doesn't mean its never been done. Would depend on what the dancer was trying to portray in her show.

 

[Emma_Williams]

thanks so much guys for all your help its been so very much appreciated

 

[adiemus]

{{{hugs}}} to Tarik!!

 

[ababalond]

I realise this is an old thread, but came across it and thought to add some links that help me on the subject Baladi, in respect the discussion above...

"Baladi" by Hossam Ramzy

styles of egyptian dance including classical baladi

and here a little something I found that I thought was kinda cute to see, its just some native men on the nile i believe dong their own (Baladi) thing, nothing spectacular

YouTube - Egyptian Guys in Cairo Dancing baladi on the Nile

but it is reminiscient to me to Bosnian parties I've been too here in the UK, my mother originates from that part of world, Bosnia, not Egypt, and was an interpreter for Bosnian refugess. when I've caught odinary people dancing Baladi it makes me feel nostalgic and remind of Bosnian parites I'd been to. at celebrations, either religious festivals or like celebrating the day the came to England they'd get a singer from Bosna over. The style of singing and accordian music is very reminiscient of some Baladi I've heard. and how the lyrics will tell a story often. We'd all get together and do a dance called the Sota which a Narodne Kolo or folk dance, in a circle, with maybe another circle in side, and two and three people at the centre dancing like they do in ordinary Baladi, sometimes me and mama. When I started to discover Baladi it was this similar nostalgic atmosphere, and emotive way of dancing to the music of the folk, that made me grow very fond of it.

 

[Marta Korzun]

Video from the old film:

Ra'asa Nagwa Fouad Baladi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cZL2Qje1Zs

DINA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFC7d6ydDCU

Fifi


Lobna





Mona el Said

 

[RanyaRenee]

For the dancers (not ordinal people's social dance) I heard some one said in the other thread, that when dance baladi, real baladi woman and educated dancers wear baladi dress or galabeya but NOT two piece costume. However, I saw Ranya's baladi video clip, and also live stage, she wore more like Sharki type of costume than baladi dress. I saw her wear red baladi dress and performed baladi, and she was really great.

Anyway, here is my question. Is this acceptable to wear two pieces costume when perform deeeeeep baladi (not like pop music type baladi)? I understand that if dancer chose baladi middle of their Oriental routine, but still kind of feel strange to see fancy two piece costume with baladi though. If this is only baladi peice, it better to wear baladi dress or galabeya right? How about high heel shoes? Again, I understand if this is middle of Oriental routine with bedra and high heels, but usually baladi and high heels don't go together right? I said before baladi is not costume, or moves but more feeling, so maybe it doesn't matter about dress? Just I don't feel right.

PS. I like lady in the yellow that Tarik's post of first video. Some reason I feel from her then (professiona? hired) dancer.

Hi Pirika!

As with anything, it's impossible to just paint all beledi the same color... I feel like it's more of a sensibility that you develop by seeing a lot and gaining personal familiarity with the culture.

With respect to the bedlah two-piece costume and high heeled shoes... I debated whether to wear shoes for the "oriental nightclub" style beledi that is one of my performances from my Baladi dvd. I had seen Fifi Abdou perform in Brooklyn over a decade ago, before i had even been to egypt, and she kicked off her high heels when she was ready to really get into the beledi mode (she was in a dress i believe). But, she was wearing pumps, and my heels have straps and they are not so easy to just kick off. I asked the Egyptian musicians I work with what they thought about the shoes for the nightclub style beledi, and I mentioned Fifi's shoe-losing bit. The musicians said to me, "Keep the shoes on, they match your outfit." So there you go. It's not one size fits all, so to speak. I might have kicked off the shoes if i could do it easily, but then it might have looked a little gimmicky too, like I'm doing a Fifi.

Shoes change the feeling of the dance, for sure, and it is more earthy without shoes. But keeping the shoes on puts you between the Oriental and the earthy. There are a lot of shades of gray in between.

I like Kashmir's description a lot, but i have to confess my pet peeve for the description of beledi meaning "my" country or "of my land" or whatever. The "my" doesn't necessarily apply here. The -i on the end here is just making balad (country, land, region) and adjective. Like, country-style. Masr, Egypt; masri, Egyptian. Amrika, America; amriki, American.
But: If someone says "Masr baladi." as a sentence, in that case, baladi means my country. ("Egypt (is) my country") The -i on the end can be the adjective for OR it can mean "my", and it depends on the context which it is.
I think it can be confusing even for people who know some Arabic.

Sorry, had to get that off my chest, I'm a language nerd. ray:

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Hi Pirika!

As with anything, it's impossible to just paint all beledi the same color... I feel like it's more of a sensibility that you develop by seeing a lot and gaining personal familiarity with the culture.

With respect to the bedlah two-piece costume and high heeled shoes... I debated whether to wear shoes for the "oriental nightclub" style beledi that is one of my performances from my Baladi dvd. I had seen Fifi Abdou perform in Brooklyn over a decade ago, before i had even been to egypt, and she kicked off her high heels when she was ready to really get into the beledi mode (she was in a dress i believe). But, she was wearing pumps, and my heels have straps and they are not so easy to just kick off. I asked the Egyptian musicians I work with what they thought about the shoes for the nightclub style beledi, and I mentioned Fifi's shoe-losing bit. The musicians said to me, "Keep the shoes on, they match your outfit." So there you go. It's not one size fits all, so to speak. I might have kicked off the shoes if i could do it easily, but then it might have looked a little gimmicky too, like I'm doing a Fifi.

Shoes change the feeling of the dance, for sure, and it is more earthy without shoes. But keeping the shoes on puts you between the Oriental and the earthy. There are a lot of shades of gray in between.

I like Kashmir's description a lot, but i have to confess my pet peeve for the description of beledi meaning "my" country or "of my land" or whatever. The "my" doesn't necessarily apply here. The -i on the end here is just making balad (country, land, region) and adjective. Like, country-style. Masr, Egypt; masri, Egyptian. Amrika, America; amriki, American.
But: If someone says "Masr baladi." as a sentence, in that case, baladi means my country. ("Egypt (is) my country") The -i on the end can be the adjective for OR it can mean "my", and it depends on the context which it is.
I think it can be confusing even for people who know some Arabic.

Sorry, had to get that off my chest, I'm a language nerd. ray:

I'm glad you pointed this out because its one that I often make. Things in Egypt aren't as cut and dry as we would like to make them, a lot depends on context. Case in point, the costume. Yes when doing a "Baladi routine", they will wear a dress or gallabeya, but it is also very common for a dancer to have a baladi section towards the end of her Oriental routine as well.

 

[RanyaRenee]

My favorite Beledi boy from da Bronx!