Getting started as a talent broker

[da Sage]

I may find myself in a situation where I can book music or dance gigs (or both). In the past, I've talked up talented pro dancers I know, and sent people to their web sites. Now I'm thinking about doing follow-up, coordination, and taking a cut of the pay. If that happens, I guess that would make me an agent.

So, if I do this, what kind of cut is reasonable? Once someone offered to set up shows for me for 40% of the gross, which I felt was a bit much. I think 20-25% makes more sense. Am I in the right ballpark? Should I consider a flat fee per booking instead, and if so how much? And if this actually pans out, what services should I be providing to the artists and the booking clients? How should I approach dancers and musicians who I think are appropriate for a particular gig?

The fact that I'm currently unemployed has a LOT to do with why even I'm considering this - any money helps, and why should I pass gigs on for free? I would take them myself if I felt qualified, but I don't, and frankly I would prefer that people more skilled than I represent the art (there's a LOT of talent in this town). I see my service as publicity, a go-between, and a talent selector.

I'm not completely new to this sort of thing. I used to do the booking for performers at a coffeehouse, and I was really proud of the job I did there. People often complimented me on the programming. This is a different level of game, though.

What do you all think? What am I not thinking of?

 

[da Sage]

OK, people have been looking, but not commenting.:naghty: Don't be shy, speak up! Am I way out of line to think of profiting by using my connections and other people's talents? Is this idea somehow immoral , or am I just out of my league to consider picking up small bits of cash this way?

One alternative is to cultivate possible job leads for myself, even though I am not a pro-level performer. I think that is what most people would do...if they are asked to perform, they simply do it - whether they are completely confident in their abilities or not. They don't try to find the best person for the gig, and connect them with the client.

 

[PracticalDancer]

OK, people have been looking, but not commenting.:naghty: Don't be shy, speak up!

This is something I cannot comment on from experience; however, I also can not seem to find the online references to this that used to be out there. (grr -- what happened to Saqra's oh-so-helpful page???)

Here is what I do recall from articles and classes: it is fair to charge a small portion for gigs you arrange. Not sure about 25%, though -- what I remember was 10 to 20%. And, get everything in writing with a confidentiality clause. If you are the "starting point" (first person to organize performing at a particular venue), it is fair and expected to ask your performers to defer all questions about additional performances to you. That is, if you send a dancer to a party, and a guest asks the dancer for her/his contact number for another booking, the dancer should respond that their performance was arranged by you and to contact you for future bookings.

(off to consult Shira's site)

Anala

 

[da Sage]

This is something I cannot comment on from experience; however, I also can not seem to find the online references to this that used to be out there. (grr -- what happened to Saqra's oh-so-helpful page???)

Here is what I do recall from articles and classes: it is fair to charge a small portion for gigs you arrange. Not sure about 25%, though -- what I remember was 10 to 20%. And, get everything in writing with a confidentiality clause. If you are the "starting point" (first person to organize performing at a particular venue), it is fair and expected to ask your performers to defer all questions about additional performances to you. That is, if you send a dancer to a party, and a guest asks the dancer for her/his contact number for another booking, the dancer should respond that their performance was arranged by you and to contact you for future bookings.

(off to consult Shira's site)

Anala

20% seems fair. 10% is really low for my profit, if I send out a dancer whose regular price is on the low end of the local scale. I'd like to raise awareness, and get good dancers (and newer pro dancers) more work, but I don't want to go effectively pro-bono if I'm putting time into setting up gigs that aren't likely to come back to me as part of the pro-dancer-courtesy-referral-circuit.

I also don't want to lock people into long-term associations that they may resent. I think that if a venue books someone repeatedly, and that person wants to eventually handle the gig themselves, there should be a sliding cut for me, and then eventually I'm out, unless I continue to provide services between the dancer and the venue. If the client/venue asks me to find different talent, that would be a new setup, and the usual (higher) cut for me from the new-to-the-venue talent.

It's exhausting even to think about this! Who knows, maybe it will all come to nothing.:lol:

 

[Azeeza]

This is an interesting question and profession. I don't know how things are quite set up in the business world, but I have done business in a similar situation. I don't understand how it works though. There must be a lot of trust or more work for the loyal "employee".

Here is my situation. My husband and I take frequent trips where we can't take our dog. He's a rescue and extremely needy and hubby and I think he would freak out if he was left in a kennel. So, my husband found a pet sitter business. A person or couple would watch our pet(s) for a nominal fee. Well, whenever we go out of town we call the employer and the employer contacts our sitter and the sitter contacts us and we negotiate the times and days and when we pick our dog up, my husband pays the sitter out flat. We've never met the business coordinator. I suppose if we contacted the sitter directly, she and he might not have any other business with the employer.

So, I suppose one thing I thought about was the loyalty aspect of things. If you "represent" local dancers for local venues, yes, they may cut out the middle man, but if you repesent a dancer or a group of dancers who travel, they rely on you to help get them jobs.

Perhaps I'm way off here since I know nothing about the business, but I'm interested in learning how it goes.

Azeeza

 

[Demelza Aradia]

I'm not a pro at this at all, but I'm going into freelance illustration when I graduate and I have been learning a lot about agencies, what they do for you and what they get paied in relationship to the illustrating world - perhaps it could translate to BD?

Are you going to be just continuing on with reccommenfing yet getting a cut, or are you actively going to be searching for work for these dancers? The point of an agent in the illustrating world is to do the marketing or you - translating to BD, if you were my agent then you'd ring up places, sing my praises and talk to places and people I would have no idea about and find it difficult to get into. However another aspect of agencies is that they have the balls to charge more than the illustrator along might, thus in many ways they pay or themselves.

some illustrating agenicies cut as 30% or more :O but I think in the bellydancing world it might be best to think what would you as a dancer be willing to cut to your agent for the service they are providing. How much are you worth and could they do this without your help?

 

[da Sage]

I'm not a pro at this at all, but I'm going into freelance illustration when I graduate and I have been learning a lot about agencies, what they do for you and what they get paied in relationship to the illustrating world - perhaps it could translate to BD?

Are you going to be just continuing on with reccommenfing yet getting a cut, or are you actively going to be searching for work for these dancers? The point of an agent in the illustrating world is to do the marketing or you - translating to BD, if you were my agent then you'd ring up places, sing my praises and talk to places and people I would have no idea about and find it difficult to get into. However another aspect of agencies is that they have the balls to charge more than the illustrator along might, thus in many ways they pay or themselves.

some illustrating agenicies cut as 30% or more :O but I think in the bellydancing world it might be best to think what would you as a dancer be willing to cut to your agent for the service they are providing. How much are you worth and could they do this without your help?

This would be a cut to me for setting up a gig that they would be less likely to have without my referral. The idea is that if I were a working dancer, I'd probably take these jobs myself, and not refer them out...since I'm not a pro, instead I'd take a kickback for setting up work. This arrangement would not restrict people from doing their own marketing, setting up their own gigs with other clients, etc...it's just a percentage of a job I set up for them.

Quite frankly, I don't know that I'm ever going to do even one setup/referral of this kind, but I did want feedback about my idea, as it seemed an arrangement that could profit everyone involved if executed well (I get much-needed cash, good dancers get new gigs, the public is exposed to quality dance instead of my amateurish efforts).

 

[Salome]

So, if I do this, what kind of cut is reasonable? Once someone offered to set up shows for me for 40% of the gross, which I felt was a bit much. I think 20-25% makes more sense. Am I in the right ballpark?

For the typical types of BD venues and clients you'd work with in anytown, USA -10% to 20%.

And if this actually pans out, what services should I be providing to the artists and the booking clients?

Find out what the client needs are: what they want to spend, what type of event and how many people and by extension what kind of show program they envision (how long, how many sets, costume changes, audience participation...) what, if any, age/physical expectations...

There will probably be times when you need to use your own knowledge to help the client get the show they are really after. Mostly when you are working with the general public - not a venue who is used to working with entertainers.

Bellygram bookings will pretty much never want to audition a dancer, but other venues like a nightclub, a festival... will most likely want to see what she can do first. If you send that dancer in to audition you've pretty much lost your commission, unless they are loyal or you have a contract to act exclusively on their behalf for that venue. So you'll need to have promotional materials like a showreel etc. to pitch the dancer. The most convenient way to do this these days is to have a website, with only your contact info, and promo pages of the dancers you book for. Picture, data, demo footage...

You'll need to have a good understanding of the talent you're selling and be able to answer the client's questions. You don't want to put them in touch - that's your job, to be the go between.

If there are any hotel or travel arrangements, that's typically handled by the agent. If there is a contract, and points need to be negotiated, the agent tends to that. You are not paid to advertise or promote anyone's event, that's up to the client.

For the artist, you need to gather all the data she or he will need to perform his/her job. The place, date, time, special instructions, music system and what it plays, who's running the music, dressing room/place to change, the contact person when they get there, the dance space, the flooring, if there are comp meal/drink tickets, all that kind of stuff.

If there are problems both parties are going to look to you for assistance, so be aware of that.

 

[da Sage]

Find out what the client needs are: what they want to spend, what type of event and how many people and by extension what kind of show program they envision (how long, how many sets, costume changes, audience participation...) what, if any, age/physical expectations...

There will probably be times when you need to use your own knowledge to help the client get the show they are really after. Mostly when you are working with the general public - not a venue who is used to working with entertainers.

<snippage of lots of important stuff to remember>

If there are problems both parties are going to look to you for assistance, so be aware of that.

Thanks for your input here! Lots of details to think about...I think if I actually do this, and do it right, I will really be working hard for whatever my cut is! I guess that is why they call it a job.

 

[Salome]

You bet. There's also the point of getting your money. When I was a young dancer, I worked for several telegram agencies and did private parties. The client paid the agencies and I was paid my part by the agencies.

But if you are just doing some free lance, you may be in situations where the client pays the artist directly when he/she shows up and you are relying on the artist to pay you your cut later. If you work with decent people and especially if you get them consistent work... fine. But I'd prepare yourself for the fact that you'll probably get burned a time or two, flaked out on and whatever else :lol:

 

[da Sage]

I think I would be afraid of a dancer showing up, dancing, and not getting paid. Then I would feel like I owe her money I don't have for working the gig. And what if she says she wasn't paid, and the client tells me oh yes I paid....

The possibilities for what could go wrong are endless!:shok:

 

[Ariadne]

My husband works with computers and has a degree in business. He says the important part is a "paper trail". Require receipts for cash and have checks made out to your company. If you are going to have a website you can set it up to take credit card payments as well, then you can directly transfer the balance into the dancers bank account. It provides more security for you, the dancer, and the client. The client can get a charge back if something goes wrong, you keep control of the finances, and the dancer is isn't stuck in a "he said/she said" situation.

He is wondering what the standard payment procedure is in the bellydance industry; whether it is pre-paid, pay on arrival, or payment after performing. According to him the ideal would be for the client to pay you ahead of time and then you pay the dancer once they have performed.

 

[shiradotnet]

Do any of the dancers you know work as messengers for local singing telegram companies? If so, you might want to pick their brains about stuff like what cut the agency keeps, what the special job requirements might be (for example, do the agencies expect them to pick up a helium balloon to deliver as a leave-behind?), what the price of a gig is, how payment is handled, etc.

Back when I used to deliver bellygrams on behalf of an agency, the client would sometimes pay the agency directly over the phone via credit card, and other times the agency would instruct me to collect cash directly from the client and then arrange to drop off the agency's portion of it. I never had a problem with clients failing to pay.

 

[da Sage]

Wow, my thread attracted a bot! I feel so popular!