It's beautiful, but it isn't belly dance

[Erik]

Something about Bhuz gives me the creeps, and they probably wouldn't let non-dancers join anyway, but I still take a look at it once in a blue moon.

HELENA VLAHOS BELLY DANCE PART THREE COIN TRICK - YouTube

I believe the problem arises from the GP's assumption that any belly dancer on the globe should perform this trick. They know absolutely nothing about styles, just as I once knew nothing about them in my pre-Internet days, and it is understandable why Egyptian dancers would be annoyed.

And yet, if you take it only as a trick and not as a prerequisite of the dance, it is beautiful, is it not? A splendid demonstration of MUSCLE CONTROL.

I fully realize that this thread may lead to an argument between Aniseteph and Kashmir, as to which one will tie the rope around my neck and which one will whip the horse from underneath me, but I'm in a self-destructive mood at the moment so it's okay.

 

[Mosaic]

I haven't watched the video, my connection is lagging on youtube this evening, but I had to laugh at your last comment about being in a destructive mood .... quite a picture, rope, horse, Erik flying through the air and thump! :lol::lol: Just make sure you have lots of padding on for a while ... Hmmmm me laughing at the visual makes me appear that I will laugh at anothers "misfortune", I promise I will try not too and will pick you up & dust you off if rope & horse come into play
~Mosaic

 

[Sirène]

Something about Bhuz gives me the creeps

Might be all the animated ads. They kill my eyes and I don't think they're doing any favors to my video card either. :lol:

I believe the problem arises from the GP's assumption that any belly dancer on the globe should perform this trick. They know absolutely nothing about styles, just as I once knew nothing about them in my pre-Internet days, and it is understandable why Egyptian dancers would be annoyed.

And yet, if you take it only as a trick and not as a prerequisite of the dance, it is beautiful, is it not? A splendid demonstration of MUSCLE CONTROL.

I love watching dancers do this, but as you said, it's a trick, it doesn't define the dance in any way. Some of the GP may expect it, but I would put that expectation in the same category I would put the expectation of dark hair, exotic features, big breasts, harem pants and face veils — i.e. the GP can expect it, but they're not necessarily going to get it.

 

[Erik]

Thanks Mosaic and Sirene.

I first saw her doing this trick in....what was it.....1981? [And everyone is thinking, How should we know, Erik? It's your story.] Anyway, until gaining the Internet in 2004 I had no idea that other dancers did it as well, nor that it was a sore subject. I find it absolutely fascinating to watch, but I never thought of it as a mandatory component of the dance, and I can't understand why people do. I like the trick, but I don't like the stereotype.

 

[Yame]

The Bhuz crowd is much less friendly than the crowd here. You (general "you") do need thick skin to post there, your posts will be challenged, and fights occur all the time.

Personally, I like those aspects of it (except that last one), I like to see people debating and to get into debates myself because it makes me think, reconsider my positions, hear other people's points of view, possibly make them reconsider theirs. I also like that a lot of people who post there are very knowledgeable and much more experienced than me. BUT it's not for everyone, some people would do best there as lurkers or away from it altogether.

I like the honest, raw, hold-nothing-back feeling from Bhuz but it's also nice to have a more friendly, open place to post here where people are much more cautious not to offend one another. They are definitely two very different environments.

To be honest with you I don't think the crowd there would be receptive to you, as a non-dancer male, although there are no rules that would keep you from joining and posting if you wished to do so. Personally, I think it's great that there are non-dancers out there who appreciate this dance enough to read and post about it online.

As for the coin trick, it's definitely a very amazing and interesting display of muscle control. But as you said, it's not really belly dance. A belly dancer could make it a part of his/her shtick of course, and there is nothing wrong with that (so long as we all realize it's not authentically Middle Eastern and that this isn't the only thing s/he can do well, there is SO much more to belly dance than belly rolls, belly rolling is hardly a part of it). It's a great trick to entertain an audience, but it does require some very specific scenarios... being close enough to the audience that they can see the coins, but in a set-up where they can still see you when you go down on the floor. That's not easy to come by, so for most dancers there isn't even much of a reason to practice it.

 

[Kashmir]

I agree it is basically circus rather than dance. I understand Helen herself is quite torn over it - ie she would rather dance but people keep asking her to turn coins (almost said tricks).

As for Bhuz apart from the ads - which drive me nuts - and technical issues which sometimes mean I cannot see some threads - I find it an interesting place to visit. Cannot see any reason why you couldn't join Erik.

 

[Erik]

As for Bhuz apart from the ads - which drive me nuts - and technical issues which sometimes mean I cannot see some threads - I find it an interesting place to visit. Cannot see any reason why you couldn't join Erik.

Thanks, Kashmir. Yes, I could join, but I just don't feel right about it. With respect to you and Sirene it isn't just those annoying ads. And they are annoying. I think of Bhuz as being for pro-minded and task-oriented belly dancers only; not fans, dabblers, or hangers-on like me. No bullshit. I can use that word now that you have already used it. The Southern gentleman in me would preclude me otherwise.

I was reluctant to join Shira's tribe, but she convinced me to do it. I was reluctant to join this forum, but she convinced me to do that too. Yeah, I could join Bhuz, but I won't. As Yame said, it's a different crowd there, and my skin may not be thick enough.

 

[Taslin]

I just took a a workshop w/ helena yesterday :0)

She openly called it a trick, she reminisced about when dancers used to do "more tricks" simply to entertain, to get a smile and to her most importantly a laugh. She mentioned that dancers today are very serious and that playfulness is a part of her dance. She stated she gotten into arguments w/ other dancers over the issue of "entertaining" and what that means.

I felt she had a "Lighten up" attitude. I loved her. She dances beautifully-and she made me laugh.

But to stay on topic with what the OP posted: I do not for the life of me understand why one person's "shtick" would be considered a mandatory component of any dance. She herself calls it a trick, and talks about the difference between just dancing and entertaining and states she does both.

I found bhuz overwhelming. Its smaller here, and that lends itself to me feeling as if its more personable here. I also like the supportive attitude here. criticism is usually given for positive reasons (to teach).

 

[Sirène]

Thanks, Kashmir. Yes, I could join, but I just don't feel right about it. With respect to you and Sirene it isn't just those annoying ads. And they are annoying. I think of Bhuz as being for pro-minded and task-oriented belly dancers only; not fans, dabblers, or hangers-on like me. No bullshit. I can use that word now that you have already used it. The Southern gentleman in me would preclude me otherwise.

The labels "fan" and "dabbler" apply to me, but that doesn't stop me from inserting my 2¢ over at Bhuz. :lol:

There is absolutely a predominance of professionals and semi-professionals on the board, but there are also a few amateurs in the mix as well. I think it could benefit from some fan perspective, and I wonder if Rosey has that in mind as she's been focusing on expanding the readership (mostly via facebook , paging Zorba!). But no need to join if it makes you uncomfortable. Lurking is a time honored tradition! I did it here for months before joining.

 

[Erik]

Thanks Sirene! Once in a while I surprise dancers (usually beginning dancers) with something they didn't know, but mostly this board has shown me how little I know. After joining I messed up and claimed that Edison invented films, completely forgetting about the Lumiere brothers. I knew who they were since I was a young child watching a cartoon (Tennessee Tuxedo I think but won't swear to it). It was humbling to say the least for an avid film buff.

If I mess up on Bhuz, I'll need to cut eye holes in a paper bag and wear it over my head every time I sign on, but thank you very much for the support.

 

[Aniseteph]

But to stay on topic with what the OP posted: I do not for the life of me understand why one person's "shtick" would be considered a mandatory component of any dance.

This.

I have no urge to do anything with nooses and horses to you Erik . I think it's an amusing trick rather than anything beautiful, but hey, it's just schtick.