Question for Greeks: Zembetiko for BD?

[Yasmine Bint Al Nubia]

Well ladies (and gentlemen), I will disagree with my dearest friend Maria again. Zeimbekiko used to be men's dance one century ago, but it has become also women's dance already since the 50ies. It is very very common for women today to dance Zeimbekiko and there are thousands of songs with "female" subjects, sung by women, partially composed and got the words written by women for women. There is almost no Greek woman today who doesn't dance Zeimbekiko (except my dear Maria I suppose ). By the way Maraki, the song of Savopoulos you quoted, is originally not a Zeimbekiko, but a political ballad. I don't know when he brought it out as Zeimbekiko and had it sung by Sotiria Bellou. The original version of the song is from the early 70ies and I remember when it came out. I was a very young teenager then and I couldn't understand what the song was talking about. Anyway this song is not a typical example for Zeimbekiko. There are thousands of others which are more typical.
By the way, a typical "female" Zeimbekiko from the 60ies (or 70ies), sung by Doukissa (I think), says:
Eimai ego gynaika fina, derbenderisa,
pou tous andres san ta zaria
tous beglerisa
Which means:
I am a fine and tough woman,
who plays with the men like with dice

Questions?

Sounds like the lyrics of old time Blues song.
Yasmine

 

[chryssanthi sahar]

Sounds like the lyrics of old time Blues song.
Yasmine

Does it? So no wonder why some people call Rembetiko (and Zeimbekia is a part of it), the Greek blues

 

[Aisha Azar]

Greek Dance

Dear Cryssanthi,
Are there differences in the ways that the men and women express through this dance??
Regards,
A'isha

 

[chryssanthi sahar]

Dear Cryssanthi,
Are there differences in the ways that the men and women express through this dance??
Regards,
A'isha

The basic dance is the same, but men (well, men who dance it well), use more powerful movements. They jump more, sometimes they "dive" to the floor, pick up a glass of wine, which had been set there before, with the teeth and drink the wine directly from the glass without using the hands, and generally they are more acrobatic. A woman of course would never "dive" to the floor and never pick up a glass with the teeth etc. So women's movements are more gracious, but still powerful and there is less acrobatic. But then again older men also don't use acrobatic, because they cannot:lol: But there are some older men, who dance Zeimbekiko fantastic, just because they express very much feeling through the dance, so that even if they use few movements, one gets very touched watching them.
But Zeimbekiko is a bit a matter of character. The fighter type of person, doesn't matter if man or woman, can dance it the best. It is a kind of martial dance

 

[Aisha Azar]

Greek, etc.

Dear Cryssanthi,
Thank you for sharing the info on the dance. The more we know about the dances, the more we can have an understanding of culture and people, and how the dance is a fit in its own place and time.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[chryssanthi sahar]

Dear Cryssanthi,
Thank you for sharing the info on the dance. The more we know about the dances, the more we can have an understanding of culture and people, and how the dance is a fit in its own place and time.
Regards,
A'isha

Dear Aisha. I agree

 

[Zorba]

The fighter type of person, doesn't matter if man or woman, can dance it the best. It is a kind of martial dance.

I hadn't heard this before - but if its true, it would provide at least one answer as to why I don't "get it." I'm one of those gentle, sensitive "new age" kind of guys.

-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

 

[chryssanthi sahar]

I hadn't heard this before - but if its true, it would provide at least one answer as to why I don't "get it." I'm one of those gentle, sensitive "new age" kind of guys.

-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

Well Zorba, don't get me wrong. Zeimbekiko is not officially a martial dance, but from it's nature it is So in this case, probably you are right, maybe you don't "get" it, because its energy just doesn't suit you And I "get" it, although I am a woman, because I am rather the Amazon type of girl:lol: I have exercised martial arts for more than 10 years and generally, I cannot tell about my self that I am very gentle and soft:lol: Well, o.k. I am not aggressive, but I am the fighter type

 

[Zorba]

Well Zorba, don't get me wrong. Zeimbekiko is not officially a martial dance, but from it's nature it is So in this case, probably you are right, maybe you don't "get" it, because its energy just doesn't suit you And I "get" it, although I am a woman, because I am rather the Amazon type of girl:lol: I have exercised martial arts for more than 10 years and generally, I cannot tell about my self that I am very gentle and soft:lol: Well, o.k. I am not aggressive, but I am the fighter type

Katabala! Euxaristw para polu; katalabainw tora, nomizw...

-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

 

[chryssanthi sahar]

Katabala! Euxaristw para polu; katalabainw tora, nomizw...

Chairomai

 

[Kiraze]

I found one YouTube-clip that shows quite typical movements used in Turkish Zeybek by women (but this clips also proves at least for me that zeybek should not be danced by women if they do not have "something to tell" like these ladies obviously do not have)


BTW this music is Harmandali, which is probably the most popular and famous zeybek tune - I love it!

 

[chryssanthi sahar]

Yes Kiraze, you are right, these ladies lack a bit of passion:lol: But Greek Zeimbekiko is completely different anyway and it is a solo dance. People normally never dance Zeimbekiko together. It is always one person who dances and all the other kneel before him/her and clap their hands. And the whole thing has a completely different dynamic. Here is a very good example for typical Greek Zeimbekiko, very male style Great dancer, great song ("O Aetos"meaning "The Eagle" of Notis Sfakianakis)

 

[chryssanthi sahar]

I'm reviving this thread, because I have at last a video of myself dancing Zeimbekiko. I performed it at my last Oriental Flow show. I already put the clip in the youtube forum, but since there are so many clips there, people who are interested in this dance may not notice it, so I'm putting it also here (Zorba, where are you:lol

 

[Dream_Merchant]

I am sorry for reviving this thread, but I could not help but to comment and add my 2 cents. First of all, I am not a belly dancer, but I dance zembekiko. I actually came to this thread while googling for information on the theory of zeibekiko. I would be pleasantly surprised to find a forum similar to this but related to what I am interesting in. Before I leave though, here are my thoughts on the above topic.

a) Tsifteteli and Zeibekiko do not have the same rhythmic pattern. So I don't know if you can really dance it correctly. I have never heard of it being attempted though, so I don't know maybe, but my personal recommendation would be not to try it as there is nothing really to be gained apart from some creative momentary entertainment, at the expense of some angry greeks throwing insults if not worse at you.

The opposite is true though. There is 'very' slow tsifteteli that is 90% of the time danced as a zembekiko by the general populace. 'Pente Ellines ston Adi'. The sombre lyrics of the particular song (that are prevalent in a zembekiko) assist in reinforcing the misdirection.

b) Zembekiko and Zeybek dances, even though related somehow, are very distant cousins indeed. There are similarities like a common 9/8 rhythm, but the philosophy and even the dance structure is completely different. After all if we are simply to compare 9/8 rhythms, even Sting has an 8/8+1/8. There are many many variations of 9/8. Such is the beauty of music.


c) Women dancing zembekiko. I really do not see a problem. Zembekiko is supposed to be a dance to express intense feelings. Women experience emotions as well, and there are particular songs that speak for women that are awesome classics (an example was given above, but there are also others such as 'Xano ton antra pou agapo', 'se pino sto potiri mou'). Even though the steps are the same, the style is different, with women leaning less on acrobatics and more on grace. Also, the movement's for men are usually more sharp and profound, but for women more fluid and reserved.

On a historical note: Zembekiko was not restricted to men. Women could dance it, but the only women allowed to dance it where prostitutes (arguably as only they could really tell of the real hardships of life).

my 2 cents.

 

[chryssanthi sahar]

Your 2 cents are worth a lot Dream Merchant Very well said :clap: I also learned something new, because although being Greek and born and grown up in Greece, I didn't know that women used to dance Zeimbekiko already in the early times of Rembetiko. I knew, that it started becoming common in the 60ies and 70ies (watching movies of that time you can see it) and today it is absolutely normal. And, as you mentioned, there are quite some Zeimbekiko songs with "female" subjects, sung by women.
But as about dancing Zeimbekiko on very slow Tsifteteli, to be honest, I've never in my life seen anybody doing this in Greece. Maybe it is possible, but it is not common.

 

[rembetissa]

An interpretation of seimbekiko

Hallo to all reading this thread.
Please be patient with my english- I am german.
During my 12 years lasting "life in Greece" I was told an very touching interpretation of seimbekiko.
Situation: everything is bad, dark, only problems, no job, no love, no money.
All this "bad world" is represented from the people, sitting on the floor. The metapher for the one person starting to dance is an eagle:
the higher and higher the eagle gets, flying over the world (think of the spread arms), the smaller all the problems seem to him. He can get over the problems (think of the leg getting over of the sitting people), he can wipe them out (think of the movement of "cleaning" the shoes). The eagle feels free in the sky, he feels power, strength.

Eagles movements can be kind of rough, powerful (male dancing?) but they also can be smooth, calm (female dancing?)
I think, as long as the dancer is really expressing his inner feeling, it is no matter if the dancer is a man or a women. And if the dancer is just "producing" himself on stage - he just should choose another dance as seimbekiko - and this also for men and women

 

[Maria_Aya]

Geia sou Rembetissa me ta orea sou !!!!
Polla filia apo Athina !!!

 

[chryssanthi sahar]

And if the dancer is just "producing" himself on stage - he just should choose another dance as seimbekiko - and this also for men and women

Haha, you are right Rembetissa Usually dancers who want to "produce themselves" (by the way, a very German expression. In Greek we call it : "na kanei epideiksi", to show off), prefer to dance sexier dances than Zeimbekiko:lol: (if I think of all those little girls dressed with almost nothing, climbing on the bars and trying to be sexyyyyyyyy while dancing very bad Tsifteteli :lol::lol::lol
Zeimbekiko is something for people who have experienced pain in their lives and therefore, the older you get, the better your can dance Zeimbekiko (as about the expression). You don't dance Zeimbekiko to show off, you dance it for yourself, to experience a "katharsis" (cleaning) of your grief and your pain and that's why you don't care what people think about your dancing. You dance it in front of people, but it is just you and the music which exists and all the others around you are like a collective dream which just supports you in throwing away your dolor. Zeimbekiko is not a dance, it is a ritual and every Greek respects it. Therefore nobody who hasn't really understood the nature of this dance should dare to dance it. Zeimbekiko is death and birth and there had even been murders because of Zeimbekiko (I was reading the autobiography of Nikos Koemtzis just some days ago- Ich weiss nicht, ob der Name dir etwas sagt, aber seine Geschichte ist eine sehr tragische und sie ist mit einem Zeimbekiko verbunden).