Kashmir
New member
'fraid not.
A question regarding the music and the moves
- Thread starter DancingArabian
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Aniseteph
New member
Someone already said it, but.... WHAAAATTTTT???? We think it's cool but you are not really doing it right so we'd better have it? Sheesh.
Maybe they took the bathwater and didn't notice or care that they left the baby...
More from the FCBD history page:
Arabs got it off Hollywood.
rotest:No, it predates TF. DAMMIT. It exists I swear!
The quote from the FCBD sums the position up really well though: the notion is that Americans created a fantasy about the Orient, which Arabs copied and applied to their own dances. Quite apart from anything else, the thing I don't like about that is that it completely ignores the *multiple* cultural influences that led to the creation of raqs sharqi, including western ones that were not actually American. There's a sad assumption that any and all western things come and have always come from the US and that's not entirely true. Egypt was under *British* semi-rule after all, not American. The French were highly influential in other parts of the region and the borders arer porous (and French = serfistikation in much of the Western world for a long time). Badia Masabni lived in America - SOUTH America.
Plus, you know, the Ottoman Empire might have had a *teeny tiny* influence on the ways people did things.
It's all much messier (and more interesting) than "Arabs copied Hollywood" which is in any case pretty testable. Bedleh-style orientalist costumes predate the existence of Hollywood.
shiradotnet
Well-known member
What the hell????
Ariadne
Well-known member
All very true but if someone doesn't know about European Opera houses, the costuming and performances of, it is understandable how they might make that mistake. Very wrong, but understandable. Especially when you consider that bellydance in the US used to be extremely isolated information-wise. A lot of the dyed in the wool conviction seem to come from older sources. Misinformation once out there is very hard to squash.
All of which comes down to FCBD not being a reliable source for information on the history of BD... which we've talked about before in other threads.
Ariadne
Well-known member
Kashmir
New member
Yes, and what she did is way more "belly dance" than much that is so labelled these days and I think she was the first teacher to a few more mainstream dancers.
Kashmir
New member
Teachers who are ignorant of belly dance's history, should be the first against the wall when the revolution comes. That is, teaching in a state of ignorance is unforgiveable.
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I think Delilah is quite typical of her generation of dancers in that she learned it in the same manner as every other 70s dancer - because in those days there was only one way to learn it! - went out there professionally and spent decades dancing in clubs with bands, and applied her own imagination, philosophies and business acumen to it. Not really so different to what tribal, TF, and gothic dancers are doing today (and in a more subtle way the teachers of "authentic" styles, too), except that Delilah does not seem to be deliberately adding stuff from This Random Cool Dance Form What I Found. I believe Delilah makes moves up, which is not really any different from any other belly dancer in the history of everything. She does it on the fly, working with a band, from within her own body, having very deep-seeded understanding of how the music operates and what sort of movement goes where.
I have met Delilah and listened to her talking about her process, and she said a very interesting thing: she "learned" to do a Turkish drop in performance, trying it for the first time while she was on stage. She remarked that the way she learned to dance, you would spend a very long time actually warming up during your dance. They were after all dancing 40 minute sets. She said the pace of breathing, the duration of the action all led to a somewhat meditative and physically ready state that meant that one night, it was the right time in the music for a Turkish drop and she thought "I can do it" and she did. Today most of us don't have that luxurious perfect storm of circumstance: some comparatively simple movements, a musically-dictated structure, the energy of a band behind us and an audience in front of us, the freedom to play with what we know, and enough time to chill out about it. ETA Oh, and the ability, provided we don't completely suck and/or are not completely hideous, to spend three shows a night, six nights a week honing our approach in this way over years!
Farasha Hanem
New member
Nooo, I have to clock in from lunch!
Jane
New member
Holy balls :shok: I just went to the FCBD site and saw all this new stuff about "Devotion" (trademarked by the way), vegan-ism, and Buddhism. "Are you devoted?" is super-imposed over hands in a prayer position. I'm not sure what to make of this. I thought this was a dance style I don't know about anyone else but this weirded me out a bit.
I was looking for the quotes mentioned earlier on the FCBD site and I got a bit distracted. I can't find the quote, where do I look?
I don't know about anyone else but this weirded me out a bit.I was looking for the quotes mentioned earlier on the FCBD site and I got a bit distracted. I can't find the quote, where do I look?
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Farasha Hanem
New member
Holy balls :shok: I just went to the FCBD site and saw all this new stuff about "Devotion" (trademarked by the way), vegan-ism, and Buddhism. "Are you devoted?" is super-imposed over hands in a prayer position. I'm not sure what to make of this. I thought this was a dance style
I was looking for the quotes mentioned earlier on the FCBD site and I got a bit distracted. I can't find the quote, where do I look?
Fat Chance Belly Dance is now a religion? oO I'm getting very confused.
I love the style, but...well...I don't know what to think now! She is very creative and you may or may not like her ideas, but dayum that woman can dance! I would never, ever mention her name is the same sentence as Dolphina.
She did THE most fabulous restaurant show I've ever seen, at a Persian restaurant/club in Seattle. Her energy and control of the crowd were amazing, she had EVERYONE eating out of her hand and all the little kids in the place were running after her to bring her tips. Her daughter told me that all the other dancers at that venue would beg the owner not to make them dance after Delilah. Nobody could create that kind of excitement. She has an amazing figure and gorgeous costumes, as well.
I've met her several times and she is fun to hang out and talk with. But I'm not averse to so-called "woo woo" spiritual ideas. She has had some amazing experiences that probably most people have not had.
She also teaches great workshops. So I'm a fan, even though some of what she has said over the years is not currently "in" or "pc." (I'm always a little surprised at the hostility with which some dancers react to any suggestion of "spirituality" connected to the dance). I hadn't heard that quote about belly dance using the movements of strippers, cootch, etc. I don't like that too much, but hey, it could have been something she said a long time ago. I'll give her a little slack because she's a dance genius.
She is much better live than on video, by the way.
Quote from Zumarrad (something odd is happening to page 10 at the moment)
"I have met Delilah and listened to her talking about her process, and she said a very interesting thing: she "learned" to do a Turkish drop in performance, trying it for the first time while she was on stage. She remarked that the way she learned to dance, you would spend a very long time actually warming up during your dance. They were after all dancing 40 minute sets. She said the pace of breathing, the duration of the action all led to a somewhat meditative and physically ready state that meant that one night, it was the right time in the music for a Turkish drop and she thought "I can do it" and she did. Today most of us don't have that luxurious perfect storm of circumstance: some comparatively simple movements, a musically-dictated structure, the energy of a band behind us and an audience in front of us, the freedom to play with what we know, and enough time to chill out about it. ETA Oh, and the ability, provided we don't completely suck and/or are not completely hideous, to spend three shows a night, six nights a week honing our approach in this way over years!"
Uhh, not making any claims or allegations about anyone specific as I don't know any of them personally, but that slow-build, blissed-out way of doing things sounds like it may have had some herbal help
"I have met Delilah and listened to her talking about her process, and she said a very interesting thing: she "learned" to do a Turkish drop in performance, trying it for the first time while she was on stage. She remarked that the way she learned to dance, you would spend a very long time actually warming up during your dance. They were after all dancing 40 minute sets. She said the pace of breathing, the duration of the action all led to a somewhat meditative and physically ready state that meant that one night, it was the right time in the music for a Turkish drop and she thought "I can do it" and she did. Today most of us don't have that luxurious perfect storm of circumstance: some comparatively simple movements, a musically-dictated structure, the energy of a band behind us and an audience in front of us, the freedom to play with what we know, and enough time to chill out about it. ETA Oh, and the ability, provided we don't completely suck and/or are not completely hideous, to spend three shows a night, six nights a week honing our approach in this way over years!"
Uhh, not making any claims or allegations about anyone specific as I don't know any of them personally, but that slow-build, blissed-out way of doing things sounds like it may have had some herbal help