Does Global Politics affect The MED scene?

[Caroline_afifi]

Well here it is...

Is anyone here affected by the credit crunch?

Has 'global terrorism' had an impact on the dance scene?

What does everyone think?

I saw an news article about Cleveland Ohio. It showed a huge shopping Mall with an empty car park and only five shops in the entire centre remained open. I have noticed nothing like this in my own city and everyone still seems to be spending but perhaps not on luxury items. Has anyone else been affected generally?

 

[Sita]

Well here it is...

Is anyone here affected by the credit crunch?

Has 'global terrorism' had an impact on the dance scene?

In my part of the world: not as far as I can tell. However I wonder if it's because belly dancing does not seem to be assosiated directly with the ME (or at least the modern ME). I know this sounds wierd but for many people there is little or no direct realisation that it is a ethnic dance the Hollywood and the fantasy element seem to have taken over in their minds.
I also feel that bellydancing may not be that effected as it seems to fly in the face of one of the most common ME sterotypes around; of the oppression of muslim and ME women, the hijab and niqab etc an image that recently has been exploited by both the media and gov (at least INMO).

As for the credit crunch - it may be too early to say. I have yet to see a lowering of numbers in shopping centres or anything like that.

Sita

 

[khanjar]

I have had the, 'Why are you interested in the Arab culture when they hate us and want to kill us', mentality. My answer to that has always been, terrorists make up not even one percent of the culture, an extreme minority, the majority are just like us and like us I suspect they just want to get on with the richness of life.

There are some problems from the past, but it is up to us to show the Arab and other cultures that people in the West are not the same as those that ridiculed them.

Maybe, maybe the credit crunch might have a positive effect if dance students fall away because of cost, maybe I might even get accepted to join a class, as at the end of the day, attendees pay fees. But it would be very sad if it took a financial crisis to accept a male into a class, when it should be we are accepted on our desire to dance.

 

[Aisha Azar]

Dance etc.

Well here it is...

Is anyone here affected by the credit crunch?

Has 'global terrorism' had an impact on the dance scene?

What does everyone think?

I saw an news article about Cleveland Ohio. It showed a huge shopping Mall with an empty car park and only five shops in the entire centre remained open. I have noticed nothing like this in my own city and everyone still seems to be spending but perhaps not on luxury items. Has anyone else been affected generally?

Dear Caroline,
It is important to remember that I live in an economically and culturally repressed area of the USA, because the attitude here would be very different than that in a bigger, more cosmopolitan city. I felt I should say that before continuing.
When 911 happened, I was dancing in an Arab restaurant as the house dancer. We at first were very worried that it would affect the business negatively. Surprisingly, patronage rose for a few months after the attack and many people stopped by to say they supported us. Another family member owned a gas station and she actually got a few threats, but for the most part, her business went up, too. This could be because the family is well known and well established here in town. Some of the guys from the colleges had a little trouble, but nothing like during the Iran hostage situation, when many of the Arab guys I knew at the time were being beaten up regularly, even though they were not even Iranian!!
As far as dance class, within the year of the 911 attack, my class attendance doubled and it stayed high for the years between 911 and this year.
I am not sure what happened exactly, but the class numbers began to fall last late Spring. It could be because there are now something like 9 other teachers in town, or it could be the economy. I usually have between 15-20 people sign up for my beginning class in the Fall. I have 8 people in the class. I had to cancel my Monday continuing class because I did not have 5 people in it. My Sunday continuing class, which usually has had about 12-15 people now seems to regularly have about 10, with drop-ins sometimes up to 15. Oddly, I have more private and semi-private students on a regular basis...???
In summation, I would say that the 911 threat affected my classes way less than has the down-turn in the economy.
As far as performance, I am no longer doing any kind of club or restaurant work, but Karim Azar asked me to find him a dancer for his new place last week. I also know that my dance company has seemed more busy this last year, but that could be strong marketing and our growing good reputation rather than any other factor.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[Caroline_afifi]

[

QUOTE=Aisha Azar;90314]Dear Caroline,
It is important to remember that I live in an economically and culturally repressed area of the USA, because the attitude here would be very different than that in a bigger, more cosmopolitan city. I felt I should say that before continuing.

Is Cleveland one of the affluent areas? I have no idea about the ecomic geography of the States.

When 911 happened, I was dancing in an Arab restaurant as the house dancer. We at first were very worried that it would affect the business negatively. Surprisingly, patronage rose for a few months after the attack and many people stopped by to say they supported us. Another family member owned a gas station and she actually got a few threats, but for the most part, her business went up, too. This could be because the family is well known and well established here in town. Some of the guys from the colleges had a little trouble, but nothing like during the Iran hostage situation, when many of the Arab guys I knew at the time were being beaten up regularly, even though they were not even Iranian!!

Apart from one local teacher hanging up her Bra and belt in disgust, I dont think we had much of a fall out in classes either. Like you, alot of teachers are complaining about the drop in nimbers and there is definately less uptake at Haflahs and events.

As far as dance class, within the year of the 911 attack, my class attendance doubled and it stayed high for the years between 911 and this year.
I am not sure what happened exactly, but the class numbers began to fall last late Spring. It could be because there are now something like 9 other teachers in town, or it could be the economy. I usually have between 15-20 people sign up for my beginning class in the Fall. I have 8 people in the class. I had to cancel my Monday continuing class because I did not have 5 people in it. My Sunday continuing class, which usually has had about 12-15 people now seems to regularly have about 10, with drop-ins sometimes up to 15. Oddly, I have more private and semi-private students on a regular basis...???
In summation, I would say that the 911 threat affected my classes way less than has the down-turn in the economy.
As far as performance, I am no longer doing any kind of club or restaurant work, but Karim Azar asked me to find him a dancer for his new place last week. I also know that my dance company has seemed more busy this last year, but that could be strong marketing and our growing good reputation rather than any other factor.
Regards,
A'isha

[/QUOTE]

I think it is difficult to assess whether a drop in numbers is down to more being available, or just simply a drop.

Unless someone is making money from this dance, or are just very wealthy, it must be quite difficult to justify the amount of spending.

 

[Aisha Azar]

Dance, etc.

Dear Caroline,

[
Is Cleveland one of the affluent areas? I have no idea about the ecomic geography of the States.

I did live in Ohio at one time, but have literally not been there since I was about 13. I am not sure about economics there, but we have several members who live there and might be able to chime in.

Apart from one local teacher hanging up her Bra and belt in disgust, I dont think we had much of a fall out in classes either. Like you, alot ofteachers are complaining about the drop in nimbers and there is definately less uptake at Haflahs and events.

Yeah, we have that issue, too. In the 70s and 80s, we used to have about 150-200 an any given performance.. In the 90s we would get about 90-100 for most of our events. Now we are lucky to get 75. Of course, the region is very factioned and many teachers never tell their students about any other events. Also, people are traveling less because of the expense.



I think it is difficult to assess whether a drop in numbers is down to more being available, or just simply a drop.

I think so, too.

Unless someone is making money from this dance, or are just very wealthy, it must be quite difficult to justify the amount of spending.

[/QUOTE]

I do know that I am not spending as lavishly. I make my living at dance and highly resented having to spend money to renew my business license this year. I just thank God there is no state income tax in Washington State! It's bad enough being ripped off by the Feds every year.

Regards,
A'isha

 

[lizaj]

I would imagine your fundamentaist/terrorist is loving the economic downturn.
All these capitalist war-mongers getting their comeupance! praise be!!!!!
If only they had realised a far less drastic way to ruin the evil West is ruin its economy and you don't have to blow yourself up to do that!

 

[karena]

I would imagine your fundamentaist/terrorist is loving the economic downturn.
All these capitalist war-mongers getting their comeupance! praise be!!!!!
If only they had realised a far less drastic way to ruin the evil West is ruin its economy and you don't have to blow yourself up to do that!

I heard something in that vein on the radio the other day - that all they needed to do to bring down the capitalist west was to take out a few too many loans :lol:

I went into town yesterday, and it was heaving with people all carrying their shopping bags full off stuff. I think the credit munch is such a let down! I want a proper crisis!:lol: The way it's affected me is made me stop listening to the radio so much as now every morning is like the dull economic stories.

Like you, alot ofteachers are complaining about the drop in nimbers and there is definately less uptake at Haflahs and events.

Do you think so? I'm way to new on the scene to know, but I just see more and more people everywhere now. Wasn't JoY almost totally sold out? I'm not disagreeing as I haven't enough experience, just interested. I suppose there are regional differences anyway maybe

 

[Caroline_afifi]

I heard something in that vein on the radio the other day - that all they needed to do to bring down the capitalist west was to take out a few too many loans :lol:

I went into town yesterday, and it was heaving with people all carrying their shopping bags full off stuff. I think the credit munch is such a let down! I want a proper crisis!:lol: The way it's affected me is made me stop listening to the radio so much as now every morning is like the dull economic stories.



Do you think so? I'm way to new on the scene to know, but I just see more and more people everywhere now. Wasn't JoY almost totally sold out? I'm not disagreeing as I haven't enough experience, just interested. I suppose there are regional differences anyway maybe

I know the Haflah you are taling about and as far as i know, this is always a popular event in an area were there are many many dancers. I think generally there are less haflahs happening and less uptake.
I think we got to a point were there was too many going on all of the time. Over saturation killed it in areas.

In the 90's I travelled all over the country and to Egypt for this dance and a good event, now people dont even crsoss the street half of the time.

I hear this being echoed alot.

 

[Aisha Azar]

Dance, etc.

I know the Haflah you are taling about and as far as i know, this is always a popular event in an area were there are many many dancers. I think generally there are less haflahs happening and less uptake.
I think we got to a point were there was too many going on all of the time. Over saturation killed it in areas.

In the 90's I travelled all over the country and to Egypt for this dance and a good event, now people dont even crsoss the street half of the time.

I hear this being echoed alot.

Dear Caroline,
I agree that market glut is a huge problem just about everywhere. There are so many events all the time that people just can not afford to support everything and instructors and sponsors are less willing to share info so that their students will attend their events and spend their money with them rather than going to anyone else's. I was talking with Ahava about this, too, since she lives in a very busy dance region in California. She says it is the same there and she was frankly pleased at the turn-outs for both show and workshop when we sponsored her. I do not approve of keeping info from students as I believe it is an instructor's obligation to let her students know about other events in the region. But then, I am not always the most savvy business person around either, so I am probably putting a few nicks in my own throat. I just feel it is unethical to hold back students or my dance company members from furthering their education when the opportunity arises.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Dear Caroline,
I agree that market glut is a huge problem just about everywhere. There are so many events all the time that people just can not afford to support everything and instructors and sponsors are less willing to share info so that their students will attend their events and spend their money with them rather than going to anyone else's. I was talking with Ahava about this, too, since she lives in a very busy dance region in California. She says it is the same there and she was frankly pleased at the turn-outs for both show and workshop when we sponsored her. I do not approve of keeping info from students as I believe it is an instructor's obligation to let her students know about other events in the region. But then, I am not always the most savvy business person around either, so I am probably putting a few nicks in my own throat. I just feel it is unethical to hold back students or my dance company members from furthering their education when the opportunity arises.
Regards, A'isha

I totally agree with you. Students do have the right to info and I cant stand to hear about teachers who deliberately mis-inform students or withold information.

Having said that, do we give ALL the info out there or just what we personally recommend.

I used to give all, but I no longer think that is perhaps the best idea.

 

[Aisha Azar]

Info, etc.

I totally agree with you. Students do have the right to info and I cant stand to hear about teachers who deliberately mis-inform students or withold information.

Having said that, do we give ALL the info out there or just what we personally recommend.

I used to give all, but I no longer think that is perhaps the best idea.

Dear Caroline,
The way I handle it is I give out all info and then tell my students that if they want more details about the presenter, they can ask me for more info and I will be happy to share what I know. I tell them what I know, either positive or negative. If it is someone absolutely incredible, then I tell the whole class that this is a don't miss opportunity. But.... I find that I have fewer students who attend events, even those sponsored by me or my dance company, as money gets tighter.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[Yasmine Bint Al Nubia]

Is Cleveland one of the affluent areas? I have no idea about the ecomic geography of the States.

No far from it. My hometown is Cleveland. Ohio and the surrounding states are a mix of urban industrialization and rural farmlands. Cleveland was home to some heavy industries such as steel, car manufacturing etc. These industries supported may generations until they closed up shop and moved elsewhere.
Although I didn't read the article, there are many malls throughout Northeast Ohio that sit empty with very little patronage long before the current economic crisis. Why?
Overexpansion. Rising costs of products. Low wages for retail work. Barren tax base that fails to attracts new businesses and of course foreclosure on homes and businesses.

Which leads me to your next question regarding credit crunch. Even in the early days of active terroism, people spent money (or should I say overextended their credit limits) like no tomorrow. I don't think terroism is the cause, but rather the greedy American corporations that has taken jobs, services and manufacturing overseas where it is cheaper to do business.

In terms of bellydance, I don't think it's affected as much by terroistic activities as it is by people holding onto their money. But it is a double edged sword that the GP do not associate the dance with the ME culture. Isn't that one of the problems we have identifed in our discussions?
Yasmine

 

[Dev]

Which leads me to your next question regarding credit crunch. Even in the early days of active terroism, people spent money (or should I say overextended their credit limits) like no tomorrow. I don't think terroism is the cause, but rather the greedy American corporations that has taken jobs, services and manufacturing overseas where it is cheaper to do business.

Dear Yasmine, I do not agree with that , The Big corporations make a load of money abroad but they don’t spend that money overseas, instead they bring the money home. Only difference is their profit margin is higher from offshore services than their onshore service. The latest economic fall was very much predicted and inevitable, When Enron and the other big corporations fell apart a couple of years before , it was an indication that something big is coming, In that time any responsible government should have put the interest rate up and regulate the credit sector or should make it tighter instead they poured more money in to the economy , made it easier for anybody and everybody to borrow money , and hoped people will spend a lot in the typical capitalist way and that will regenerate and help re boosting all the other service sectors. Now the truth is people did spend their money , well some spent all their money , but not on basic needs, people started gambling with their money, they bought properties/ houses and other accessories they really didn’t need , and in doing so they created a totally false economy, economy without the base of true demand and supply. Its not only the general public but also big corporations , banks and other private sectors all jumped on the band wagon and made it what it looks today, it was not that long ago, Argentina went down like a piece of space junk , I am not sure why countries like USA never took it as a big warning.

Regards

 

[Caroline_afifi]

No far from it. My hometown is Cleveland. Ohio and the surrounding states are a mix of urban industrialization and rural farmlands. Cleveland was home to some heavy industries such as steel, car manufacturing etc. These industries supported may generations until they closed up shop and moved elsewhere.
Although I didn't read the article, there are many malls throughout Northeast Ohio that sit empty with very little patronage long before the current economic crisis. Why?
Overexpansion. Rising costs of products. Low wages for retail work. Barren tax base that fails to attracts new businesses and of course foreclosure on homes and businesses.

Which leads me to your next question regarding credit crunch. Even in the early days of active terroism, people spent money (or should I say overextended their credit limits) like no tomorrow. I don't think terroism is the cause, but rather the greedy American corporations that has taken jobs, services and manufacturing overseas where it is cheaper to do business.

In terms of bellydance, I don't think it's affected as much by terroistic activities as it is by people holding onto their money. But it is a double edged sword that the GP do not associate the dance with the ME culture. Isn't that one of the problems we have identifed in our discussions?
Yasmine

Hi Yasmine,
I saw this on the BBC main news on television. I dont know why the focus was particularly fixed on Cleveland but it was showing the empty mall with only five shops lesft open.
I thought it had happend a little fast!
Thanks for the info.

 

[karena]

Hi Yasmine,
I saw this on the BBC main news on television. I dont know why the focus was particularly fixed on Cleveland but it was showing the empty mall with only five shops lesft open.
I thought it had happend a little fast!
Thanks for the info.

Maybe it was Cleveland UK , Caroline? Maybe Cleveland here is just like that all the time :lol:

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Maybe it was Cleveland UK , Caroline? Maybe Cleveland here is just like that all the time :lol:

ha bloody ha!

You think I dont know the difference? ...watch out you! :lol: