Help double veil is eating me!!!! HELP!!!!

[~Diana~]

OK staring off I am 5 foot 2 inches tall and have a very tiny (as in not long) torso. I bought a set of heavier silk semi-circle double veils cause I wanted to start teaching myself double veil. However I discovered that they are just too big for me (I can't return them either) They are 100 inches long and 54 inches wide. I'm just starting off learning to hold them and trying to go in and out of the box with them. My problem is that there is just too much veil and I can't control it. I get all wrapped up and it is pure frustration. It also does not help that I super static issues going on with them so they are sticking to each other, to me, and to my hair.

Can someone tell me what size semi-circle veils I should get? The ones at bellydance.com are around 43x86 or the chiffon ones are 42x84 inches from center to the outer edges. I feel this size would be more manageable for me.

Frustrated and sad

 

[Salome]

Nothing like frustration and sadness to take the fun out of it. Can you trim down the veils you have yourself? Have you tried using the rectangular veils you already use? We learned double veil with our run of the mill rectangular veils.

 

[~Diana~]

I don't know enough about silk to trim them. It is possible to trim them down based on the coloration; They are black with only light blue dye along the bottom edges. But I don't know how to do that with silk without ruining it. I do have two rectangular silk veils I could probably learn to dance with. I was hoping to learn it with semi-circle cause I love the look of it and that is what all of the dvd's I bought the instructor used.

 

[Daimona]

I feel you pain, ~Diana~.

As you know it takes a lot of time to get to know new veils (particularly silk), figuring out how they work with different kind of outfit fabrics you may wear when practicing and performing (such as silk clinging to crushed velvet) and also in rooms with different moisture and floor types. Have you tried spraying them with a little bit of water just before use (not really making them wet, just slightly) to get rid of some static electricity?

If nothing else works, maybe they can be converted to small isis wings or a cape or a skirt or you can find someone to work with on a single veil duet having matching veils?

 

[Zorba]

Here's my thoughts...

If you're just starting out with double veil, DO NOT USE SILK. Use a medium weight Lame', or *maybe* a medium organza. I did quite a bit of DV dancing before I tried it with silk - you have enough to deal with with 2 veils, all new techniques, fabric "everywhere", spinning until you're sick, etc, etc, without having to deal with the brittleness of silk.

Once you have the basics down, *then* switch to silk - the learning curve won't be so steep!

http://www.doubleveil.net/veils.htm

http://www.doubleveil.net/veildancer.htm

 

[~Diana~]

I haven't tried steaming them yet. That might work for the static. My problem is that I can hold them straight up in front of me and there is still a good 4 inches laying on the floor.

Zorba would you recommend Chiffon veils to start with? I can't get anything here so I have to order it online and get set in. Bellydance.com has a chiffon veil for $17.99 each

 

[Zorba]

Zorba would you recommend Chiffon veils to start with? I can't get anything here so I have to order it online and get set in. Bellydance.com has a chiffon veil for $17.99 each

Oh dear - now this is a stumper. I've never danced DV with Chiffon, so I just don't know to be honest. A lot would depend on "what kind/weight of Chiffon?". I'd say if its a "medium weight" you "might" be OK - too heavy or too light would be more of a challenge. Beyond that, I just can't say - Chiffon isn't usually used for D.V., but as I haven't tried it myself, I don't know why. Maybe someone else knows more than I do!

Lame' is pretty forgiving, which is why most people start with it. When I was learning DV, it was NINE MONTHS of "Fighting with Fabric 101" for me, even with Lame'. But I'm not exactly the most coordinated guy on the planet, learning anything dancewise takes me time! YMMV.

 

[Daimona]

Double veil with chiffon is possible (just avoid veils with a heavy trim). I started doing double veil with two large rectangular chiffon veils of medium to heavy weight (because this was what I got at the time) and built up a lot of muscles and drama. The most challenging thing when transitioning to lightweight silk veils was simply using less power to make them do what I wanted to, kind of letting the silk breathe and flow in the air.

As I don't do semi-circular veils myself I can't give you a good size estimate. But if I compare them with my rule-of-thumb for rectangular veils the length is probably ok, but they are way too wide for you. If I guesstimate the width for you, 36 inches or so might be better, because the length is easier to handle when the fabric is narrow.


How about carefully sewing up the flat side of the veils (without cutting the fabric in case you regret) to make them shorter? Fold the fabric once and make one seam by the fold (to give you a nice edge to hold at) and then one seam at the fabric edge. This is just an idea from the top of my head, I haven't tried it myself yet.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

I haven't tried steaming them yet. That might work for the static. My problem is that I can hold them straight up in front of me and there is still a good 4 inches laying on the floor.

Zorba would you recommend Chiffon veils to start with? I can't get anything here so I have to order it online and get set in. Bellydance.com has a chiffon veil for $17.99 each

You're actually more blessed than I am---I'm 4'9"! X/ ALL veils in general love to snack on me, whether rectangular, half-circle, chiffon, silk, organza, whatever! x/ I have stepped on my veils and slid because almost all of them are too wide and drag several inches on the ground. One of my teachers trimmed a few of my chiffon veils for me, just so I wouldn't kill myself! xP

i love double-veil, and have a number of half-circle chiffon veils, and a set of silk ones that I've yet to master. Waiting for more replies to your question.

Oh, I did solve the problem with my organza veil---I turned her into a pair of harem pants! xP

 

[Darshiva]

I'm not one for veil work to begin with but I've cut most of mine in half and hemmed away. Feels a bit nicer for an egyptian-style 'this is just for a moment to catch your attention before I discard it & DANCE!'.

 

[Jeanne]

I don't know enough about silk to trim them. It is possible to trim them down based on the coloration; They are black with only light blue dye along the bottom edges. But I don't know how to do that with silk without ruining it. I do have two rectangular silk veils I could probably learn to dance with. I was hoping to learn it with semi-circle cause I love the look of it and that is what all of the dvd's I bought the instructor used.

If there is a costumer in your area, or a skilled alterations tailor, it might be worth having them trim them for you. I would definitely stick with semicircles -- IMHO you just don't get the right look for double veil with rectangles.

 

[Zorba]

i love double-veil, and have a number of half-circle chiffon veils, and a set of silk ones that I've yet to master.

Ok, so YOU have experience with DV with Chiffon - this is great! What's their weight? I called one of my teachers last nite - old skool dancer - and she too confirmed that Chiffon DV is possible - she did it back in the day, but wasn't able to offer any insight on Chiffon vis-a-vis Lame' (for DV).

As for transitioning to silk for D.V., to echo Daimona, slow down and reduce your power - this seems to be a common problem for those used to Lame' (it was for *ME*!), your Chiffon sounds like it might be a fairly heavy variety which, if that's the case, would also necessitate a power reduction. I hope that makes sense...

As for the OP, if those $18 Chiffon veils are half circles, I can't see how you could go wrong, even if you ended up using them for "later".

 

[Zorba]

I would definitely stick with semicircles -- IMHO you just don't get the right look for double veil with rectangles.

Yes, its an ENTIRELY different look using rectangles!

 

[~Diana~]

I might risk buying the smaller size half circle in chiffon for the cost of $18 each. I looked up some pictures of organza and just love how metallic they look. Might see if I can find a small but cheap pair to order in to try out.

In the meantime I got some sword dance and moves dvd's I can also start learning from. Some day I will master DV!!!

 

[Zorba]

I might risk buying the smaller size half circle in chiffon for the cost of $18 each. I looked up some pictures of organza and just love how metallic they look. Might see if I can find a small but cheap pair to order in to try out.

In the meantime I got some sword dance and moves dvd's I can also start learning from. Some day I will master DV!!!

Be patient with yourself with DV, it isn't easy and most people - such as myself - spend quite a bit of time being nauseated from all the spinning!

"Metallic"? That would be Lame', not Organza. Organza is an open weave, about halfway between Chiffon and Tulle - or am I missing something?

 

[~Diana~]

huh the website I was looking at had something that was metallic in shimmer listed as organza. I was considering getting these http://www.dahlal.com/half-circle-organza-veil-for-belly-dance/

LOL I love spinning so that it not a problem for me. I'll look into getting smaller veils and work with those.

 

[Zorba]

You're right! That's Organza all right, and what a pretty Organza it is! I hereby stand corrected!

I like Organza as a veil fabric in general - I would say ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL (which they never are), you could do well with these - with the usual disclaimers, blah, blah, I haven't tried it, etc, etc. You can't complain about the price!

On the subject, I'll recommend Alyne Hazzard's D.V. video, if you're looking for one. She's the one who taught me - plus she's QUITE petite. I'm not sure about availability as she retired a few years back, but there are other good vids out there that I'm sure folks can recommend.

 

[~Diana~]

These are the hand dyed silk veils I have. SOOO big for me. Both are identical. Love them but at 100 inches by 54 inches they do not love me.

 

[Daimona]

I once got a trick from Aziza holding more fabric in the hands when dancing with a larger veil, when needed letting the fingers crawl grabbing more fabric to keep it up from the floor and letting go when needed (for posing with nice hands etc). Both are typical things you can do when spinning.

 

[Aniseteph]

Ooh, pretty semicircles! I've got fanveils in a similar colourway.

But yeah huge semicircles are huge. I'm tall and can still get eaten by mine, and there's only one of it. Two would look like having a fight with a super king size duvet cover.

Actually it is my friend now. I used it at a hafla the other weekend with a more than usually "haven't thought this through" choreography, and we came to an understanding. Choreo forgotten (no change there then...) and wheeee, I have space and a huge piece of silk to play with!!!!:dance:. Trying to practice at home in a limited space had been hopeless; however tall you are you need the space for all that silk to move. Poly chiffon feels slightly easier in a smaller space, it's more about the drape.