Mass Media, Mass Stereotypes

[shiradotnet]

There's a NEW article on my web site about how the mass media reinforce stereotypes about belly dance's purpose being that of titillating men:

Mass Media, Mass Stereotypes: The Beginning, by Shira

I'd be interested in hearing everyone's thoughts/feedback.

 

[Kashmir]

Fantastic work Shira. Never thought how young people are when they get to be misinformed.

The episode with Homer was particuarly grating as the "belly dancer" was called "Kashmir". One of the few times I've written a crabby letter. Needless to say they never replied.

Great that you also included some ideas of how to tackle the issue.

(PS In Middle Eastern Culture the first applied is "appiied")

 

[Mosaic]

WOW! so many cartoons depicting "sexy" bellydancers. I have never been a TV or movie cartoon watcher, so had no idea. An extremely interesting article, thanks Shira.
~Mosaic

 

[Munniko]

Definitely love this cartoon because it rings true with a lot of correcting I get to do about Japan as well. Apparently if it is good enough to be on TV or in a movie it must be true:clap:



I'm looking at you Memoirs of a Geisha.....I'm looking at you

 

[shiradotnet]

Fantastic work Shira. Never thought how young people are when they get to be misinformed.

The episode with Homer was particuarly grating as the "belly dancer" was called "Kashmir". One of the few times I've written a crabby letter. Needless to say they never replied.

Great that you also included some ideas of how to tackle the issue.

(PS In Middle Eastern Culture the first applied is "appiied")

Kashmir, thanks so much for the feedback! I'm glad you enjoyed the article! And thanks for alerting me to the typo on "appiieed" - I have fixed it!

 

[Daimona]

:clap: I second all what Kashmir said.

(PS! The picture of Wilbur won't show. DS.)

If you also makes a list of other animated films depicting bd characters, do remember the Norwegian film Pinchcliffe Grand Prix/Flåklypa Grand Prix from 1975. One of the main characters, Solan, falls in love with the dancer Soline (i.e. before seeing her dance), which belongs to the party of the sponsor of the car race sheik Ben Reddic Fy Fazan and his company Alladin Oil. I'll check out more of the details if you're interested.

 

[DancingArabian]

How much of this is a pure invention of mass media and how much is it based off of the research that goes behind the productions, or even of their own experiences? I do think the media continues to promote that image though, but I don't think it originated from there.

Guys go out, they see a gorgeous belly dancer in a revealing costume. They rarely, and probably never, see the dancers who are covered up head-to-toe. Even if they do, they're not interested. They can't see the movements and can't envision them, there's no draw for them.

IMO, performers trying to make a living have to conform in a way to their audiences desires. Would a dancer in a full body covering costume sell as many tickets as a dancer in a revealing costume?

Would someone dancing in the depicted scenarios be dancing in anything less than a costume they thought would be pleasing?

I don't think it will change on the stage. Dancers need to make their living, and people generally aren't interested in learning about the ways of other cultures, nevermind developing an appreciation for them. Do people in general care that what we call belly dancing is just how the people in certain countries dance? The same is true for African dancing - I wonder how many people actually realize that African dancing is how they actually dance in Africa on a local level.

 

[walladah]

Shira, i have already commented on your FB post

so, i was thinking afterwards about being positive...

i mean, "any publicity is good publicity" then, to be fair, bellydance attracts a lot of sequences in films and animations, compared to other dances... and it prevails concerning all ethnic-non western dances...

of course, i agree that all those pictures stem from an orientalist, sexist and probably imperialist view of the world, at the expense of non-western cultures.

However, as E.Said would say, this suppressed "other" within the western mainstream culture cannot abstain from promoting, even within orientalist framworks, what the culture (i insist on the gender of the subject) really is afraid of and what it really desires.

Creating popularity based on those suppressed desires is not the best thing for the art itself, but it might enable us to reach people who without this picturing, would probably never be interested in oriental dance.

Remember how it started in late 19th century... it was completely sexist and imperialist an invention of an exotic art... as time went by, new dancers started to work with anthropological methods to learn more about the culture... Today, we have a self-confident community of dancers who are educated and can educate others better than the initial commercial fairs of late 19th century. That's a victory my friends...

 

[Aniseteph]

Creating popularity based on those suppressed desires is not the best thing for the art itself, but it might enable us to reach people who without this picturing, would probably never be interested in oriental dance.

I think you are right. Some new students must come along as a secret wannabe Princess Fatima of the Seven Veils, or wanting to spice it up for hubby, and if it gets them through the door to a place where they can learn that it's not gyrating for the sultan, that's great. Better than their staying outside with those images. Not that I am saying it's a good thing to actively promote the stereotypes as a marketing schtick.

@DancingArabian - I don't think it's so much the costumes (although featuring a belly dancer is a convenient way to flash some decorative flesh) as much as the way belly dance has been represented. Shira's hit the nail on the head - it's the context and reaction. Eyes on stalks and drooling wolves and something naughty and forbidden in the fairground/bedouin tent. I don't believe the media people doing it did it out of reflecting anyone's reality as much as to perpetuate lazy self-serving stereotypes.

 

[DancingArabian]

@DancingArabian - I don't think it's so much the costumes (although featuring a belly dancer is a convenient way to flash some decorative flesh) as much as the way belly dance has been represented. Shira's hit the nail on the head - it's the context and reaction. Eyes on stalks and drooling wolves and something naughty and forbidden in the fairground/bedouin tent. I don't believe the media people doing it did it out of reflecting anyone's reality as much as to perpetuate lazy self-serving stereotypes.

Consider this - where is the media getting the notion to represent belly dance a certain way? From belly dancers. From how real audiences and real men react to the dances. Yes the cartoons promote the imagery, but it didn't originate from there. Cartoons are a recent thing, the promotion of a belly dancer as a seductress/temptress precedes the cartoons, and movies and all the other stuff.

Go to google, do an image search for belly dancer. You can't blame the media for things that are based in reality.

 

[shiradotnet]

(PS! The picture of Wilbur won't show. DS.)

Thanks for letting me know! I just now fixed that.

If you also makes a list of other animated films depicting bd characters, do remember the Norwegian film Pinchcliffe Grand Prix/Flåklypa Grand Prix from 1975. One of the main characters, Solan, falls in love with the dancer Soline (i.e. before seeing her dance), which belongs to the party of the sponsor of the car race sheik Ben Reddic Fy Fazan and his company Alladin Oil. I'll check out more of the details if you're interested.

I've never heard of this film. Thanks for telling me about it! I see that the DVD can be ordered from Amazon, so I"ll have to get a copy!

 

[Daimona]

I've never heard of this film. Thanks for telling me about it! I see that the DVD can be ordered from Amazon, so I"ll have to get a copy!

Thank you, you're welcome! It is a very cute film (stop-motion animated feature film with dolls) and it is a film nearly all Norwegians know by heart (it is the most widely-seen Norwegian film of all time in Norway). It was also dubbed to 17 different languages so others here might have seen it as well. IIRC the dancing isn't much (it is mostly her outfit that suggest Soline being a belly dancer (harem pants, bra, bejeweled navel). I can't remember what kind of dance moves she is supposed to do (I never looked at it that way). According to your article, her dancing is both to entertain the sheik as well as voyeurism as Solan is secretly spying at her through the opening of the tent on a mission to talk with the sheik. At least there are no popping eyes, but I'd need to see it again to be more precise (I'll edit this message if I'm wrong). I haven't seen it in some years, and I'll see if I get a chance to do so during the next couple of days.

ETA: There is one scene where Soline (she is the same kind of bird as Solan, btw) is playing/dancing with a tambourine. From what I could see, there are a few head slides, some slow chest shimmies, some hip slides, kick and a belly flutter. The whole scene takes about 1.5 minutes (the "dancing" is perhaps half the time).
I'm rather impressed with the belly flutter, as the figures used for the movie were rather small.

 

[shiradotnet]

Consider this - where is the media getting the notion to represent belly dance a certain way? From belly dancers. From how real audiences and real men react to the dances.

I disagree. Did you read my actual article linked in my post at the beginning of this thread, or have you only read the discussion here on OD? The media got this notion from the combination of the following:

1. The Orientalist art of the 19th century, such as Jean-Leon Gerome's paintings.

2. The writings of European travelers, such as Flaubert, who didn't know the difference between a real dancer and a prostitute who is willing to dance if asked to.

3. Oscar Wilde's Salome and the opera Salome by Richard Strauss, and the pop culture phenomenon that it generated.

4. The salacious way in which Sol Bloom promoted the Middle Eastern dancers at the Columbia Exposition in 1893, intentionally choosing provocative language to describe them. (There had also been dancers at the Centennial fair in 1877, but they were not promoted in a salacious way and therefore did not stir up scandal.) The dancers at the Exposition were fully clothed in the style of Fatima whose photo appears in my article. I recommend reading the book Looking for Little Egypt by Donna Carlton to learn more about the scandal generated by the 1893 Exposition.

5. The fascination American society had in the first couple of decades of the 20th century with the idea of the Turkish Sultan having a harem full of women waiting to do his bidding - that idea appears in a lot of the pop culture between 1900 and 1920, even in the years following.

Other articles I recommend:

Fatima's Coochee Coochee Dance, An Early Edison Film
The Image of the Eastern Dancer: Flaubert's Salomé, by Andrea Deagon

 

[khanjar]

It is simple to understand ;

Sex sells

And belly dance whether belly dancers like it or not, from the article on Shira's, belly dance is sex or rather titillation for an oppressed audience in the west at least. But what was it in the regions of it's birth a social dance yes, a celebratory dance, maybe but public and private entertainment most definitely and how were those early dancers costumed is worth thinking about as context is everything.

Now I dance, I belly dance but whilst I dance I am under no illusions whatsoever regards what the public perception of what this dance is for the Western education is ancient and yes I do get quizzical comments and some other stuff, but I dance for me not them, they want to watch that's up to them if I let them, but because I dance this dance I have researched male dance in the regions of the origin of belly dance and come to the conclusion dancing be it male or female was a low class activity in antiquity and it was entertainment along with other means of living, but that is humanity and life was never easy, people did what they did in order to survive. And so I understand where perhaps the Egyptian view of belly dancers being prostitutes comes from, for dancers in antiquity did what they did to better their lives, just plain old human nature and the fact that sex has always sold.

In the west, in fact all over the world, belly dance is an art now and those that see this dance as an art wish it to be seen as an art cleaned of it's past associations and there is nothing wrong in that, it is progress, but as to changing the public perception on the whole, it is down to belly dancers to do that, but in doing that be aware what might come with it and those that are professional dancers might be hit a little harder if they prefer to cover up. But where there are those that would prefer the art there will always be those that don't and so will undo any good work as they look after themselves and get the gigs because they are more than happy to show skin to get them where they want to be in life because the knowledge is ancient, sex sells simple as that.

And the media both leads and follows, it gives the public what it wants in order to be a viable business.

 

[shiradotnet]

I think you are right. Some new students must come along as a secret wannabe Princess Fatima of the Seven Veils, or wanting to spice it up for hubby, and if it gets them through the door to a place where they can learn that it's not gyrating for the sultan, that's great. Better than their staying outside with those images.

I agree.

 

[Aniseteph]

Consider this - where is the media getting the notion to represent belly dance a certain way? From belly dancers.
Go to google, do an image search for belly dancer. You can't blame the media for things that are based in reality.

OK, did that, and was pleasantly surprised - mostly dancers' publicity shots, dancers looking classy and nice in dance poses in perfectly standard two piece costumes. If those are the images people have of belly dancers, that's great. Not enough ME representation, but Google an English term and what do you expect.

What I don't see in those images is anything implying belly dance is aimed at men. Many professional dancers go out of their way to stress that their shows are family friendly, and only perform for mixed or all-female audiences. If you see those images and think dancing for the sultan, that's your preconceptions kicking in IMO.

Consider this - where is the media getting the notion to represent belly dance a certain way? From belly dancers. From how real audiences and real men react to the dances.

Not being a real man I can't speak for how real men react, but I have never seen a belly dance audience behave like lustful wolves (OK maybe for some male dancers, but that's just embarrassing). It can get noisy and appreciative, but not in that way. At every place I've seen belly dancing, any man behaving that way toward a female dancer would set off everyone's skeeve radar, would get assorted WTF? looks and stinkeyes from anyone who knew him, and maybe thrown out by security.

Someone will probably say "ah but that's what they are really thinking". So what. It's not appropriate to share those thoughts in company where they are considered disrespectful, and if you are a media type it's abusing your power to share them there, because that sends the message that those attitudes are OK.

 

[khanjar]

Yes, that is an interesting comment, What exactly is a

real man ?

Because just like women men come in all flavours, or is it the real man is in fact the neanderthal that can be turned on and turned off as suits the need ?

But of men, I know what they can be like in the company of other men,when that notorious lubricant alcohol is in it is the same with women, but when they are separated from their own gender, out on their own or with the opposite as company, they won't be heard saying boo to a goose for civility suddenly rains down. Mixed audiences are the way to go as each should temper the other, but anyone that descends into the lion or lionesses den must be prepared for what might come. Choose your venues wisely.

 

[Zorba]

Great article.

And even Belly Dancers contribute to this stereotype - I was roped into being "The Sultan" in a troupe performance a few years ago. Fortunately, it was short - just an introduction type thing before I joined the girls dancing. But I wasn't too happy at the time...

 

[DancingArabian]

What I don't see in those images is anything implying belly dance is aimed at men. Many professional dancers go out of their way to stress that their shows are family friendly, and only perform for mixed or all-female audiences. If you see those images and think dancing for the sultan, that's your preconceptions kicking in IMO.

"Dancing for the sultan" is actually something that never crosses my mind. However, I DO think that the standard skin baring two piece costume is definitely going to be appealing to men who like women. It might be standard wear, and the goal may not be that of enticing men, but, that is what happens.

If you don't think that's the case, put on a 2 piece outfit and walk around in a Renaissance festival. It is a HUGE ego boost, let me tell you.

This doesn't bother me, at all. I personally don't care if a man finds me sexy or ugly in my outfits as that's not my purpose. *I* like the outfits, I like how they look in them. I've only ever done 1 "slave girl" style dance and that was not for the public.

I'm not saying that the images promote the "dancing for the sultan" thing, but how can you look at the pictures and NOT think "sexy hot belly dancer" and understand how it's alluring to men? And isn't that one of the images that's being promoted? Again, it may not be the goal or purpose of it, but that's the accomplishment as it were.

Not being a real man I can't speak for how real men react, but I have never seen a belly dance audience behave like lustful wolves (OK maybe for some male dancers, but that's just embarrassing). It can get noisy and appreciative, but not in that way. At every place I've seen belly dancing, any man behaving that way toward a female dancer would set off everyone's skeeve radar, would get assorted WTF? looks and stinkeyes from anyone who knew him, and maybe thrown out by security.

Someone will probably say "ah but that's what they are really thinking". So what. It's not appropriate to share those thoughts in company where they are considered disrespectful, and if you are a media type it's abusing your power to share them there, because that sends the message that those attitudes are OK.

I think you're being too literal. The cartoons are...cartoons. Their depictions are over the top, but I think they are absolutely based on reality. I've never seen men in the audience sit and howl at the women, but I HAVE seen them very noisy, whistling, super appreciative of the lovely lady on stage. While they're not howling, they're definitely showing a lustful response - loud rowdy cheering, stomping, whistling, etc.

Yes, that is an interesting comment, What exactly is a

real man ?

Because just like women men come in all flavours, or is it the real man is in fact the neanderthal that can be turned on and turned off as suits the need ?

But of men, I know what they can be like in the company of other men,when that notorious lubricant alcohol is in it is the same with women, but when they are separated from their own gender, out on their own or with the opposite as company, they won't be heard saying boo to a goose for civility suddenly rains down. Mixed audiences are the way to go as each should temper the other, but anyone that descends into the lion or lionesses den must be prepared for what might come. Choose your venues wisely.

A real man, as in, a real living person and not an animated drawing. I wasn't assigning any stereotypical gender behavior there


-------

I have a hard time understanding how anyone sees the standard 2-piece belly dance costume and is baffled at how it inspires a lusty response and at why the media would depict dancers in the same style of costume.

Granted, they don't have to make the characters act.....overly friendly....but that is an issue seperate from the costuming, IMO.

And again, while the costumes aren't necessarily worn with the intent of drawing in the fellas, anyone baring that much skin is going to draw them in. You're (general you) going to be accused of trying to pull in men, and of trying to grab attention, and that's because that's what happens to women in the attire, regardless of their intent.

 

[DancingArabian]

I disagree. Did you read my actual article linked in my post at the beginning of this thread, or have you only read the discussion here on OD? The media got this notion from the combination of the following:

1. The Orientalist art of the 19th century, such as Jean-Leon Gerome's paintings.

2. The writings of European travelers, such as Flaubert, who didn't know the difference between a real dancer and a prostitute who is willing to dance if asked to.

3. Oscar Wilde's Salome and the opera Salome by Richard Strauss, and the pop culture phenomenon that it generated.

4. The salacious way in which Sol Bloom promoted the Middle Eastern dancers at the Columbia Exposition in 1893, intentionally choosing provocative language to describe them. (There had also been dancers at the Centennial fair in 1877, but they were not promoted in a salacious way and therefore did not stir up scandal.) The dancers at the Exposition were fully clothed in the style of Fatima whose photo appears in my article. I recommend reading the book Looking for Little Egypt by Donna Carlton to learn more about the scandal generated by the 1893 Exposition.

5. The fascination American society had in the first couple of decades of the 20th century with the idea of the Turkish Sultan having a harem full of women waiting to do his bidding - that idea appears in a lot of the pop culture between 1900 and 1920, even in the years following.

Other articles I recommend:

Fatima's Coochee Coochee Dance, An Early Edison Film
The Image of the Eastern Dancer: Flaubert's Salomé, by Andrea Deagon

I did, Shira! It was an excellent article and I don't disagree with you, I just don't fully agree. I think that while forms of media have absolutely encouraged a certain perception of belly dancing and belly dancers, I believe that it wasn't just something made up out of the air. I think it was based on stories (either real, myth or fake) and actual experiences. I believe that the preconceptions pre-date all forms of media.

I think that when you see enough dancers wearing X costume, moving in Y way and getting Z reaction, you're going to come away believing that's how it is. (General you)

I'm just trying to point out that while the goal/intent may be on one side, the end result is on the other, and that one leads to the other despite the former. Men (who like women) ARE enticed by a good belly dance. Does it really matter if that was her goal or not? It is what will happen when the dance is performed.