The relativity of Classical to Modern Egyptian Oriental

[ababalond]

Now i wasn't sure whether this would be better suited in the youtube forum, for whosoever could post vid of this or that in relation to this inquiry. but i feel its a subject of discussion more sympathetic on dance styles really.

When one says classical or modern (Egyptian Oriental), are they alluding to a style of dance, or an era or age of dancers. or its a matter of either/or.

i've got into a tad of a mucking fuddle on this one!

i shall tell you all for why.

i've seen clips defined as classical where no "belly" bellydancing seems to be going on, it seems more ball roomy with lots of turns, moving steps, and striking poses, with hip swerves, swoops, and shimmies, more western influenced seeming. then other classical defined clips like fifi abdou for instance, which seem like a funked up stylisation or progression from baladi to my untrained eye, or, rather more like the modern oriental stuff i've seen.

my teacher has refered to classical as fifi abdou and soheir zaki, but then she also makes a distinction saying theres courtly classical and then theres modern classical, which confuses me even more! but here i've seen the same be referred to as modern, that is Fifi, any links, experienced knowledgables out there with an opinion on that matter?

oh yes , on a lesser not, has anyone watch Hilary Thackers DVD's on Baladi, and have you also seen Ranya Renee's DVD's on Baladi, why does the vocabulary and stylisation seem to differ so?

 

[Marya]

It might help to remember that it all starts with the music. I tend to prefer music by composers who were at their peak in the 1940's -50s. Mohamed Abdul Wahab for example. If the music is arranged like the original composition and is from a composer from these decades I would call it classical.

Much of the music by composers from this time period have had their music arranged in a very modern style. Alf Leyla Wa Leyla for example has had several "modern " versions produced. in my opinion it is nearly impossible to dance in the classical Egyptian style to a modern (or perhaps post modern would be a more appropriate term) arrangement of music regardless of how old the original version is.

Marya

 

[Kashmir]

When one says classical or modern (Egyptian Oriental), are they alluding to a style of dance, or an era or age of dancers. or its a matter of either/or.

Sometime the era, sometimes the style Golden Age is the 1930s-1950s (or thereabouts). It refers to the dance as performed by Badia's dancers and the stars of the old Egyptian movies - and there is a lot of overlap. But at the same time there was still an older style of dance being performed at local celebrations.

I think of "Classical" as the result of the oil money pouring into Cairo. Big productions. Big music. Incredible costumes. The actual dance styles vary quite a bit - Ngawa, Souheir Zaki, Fifi, Mona are all very different dancers. But they shared the expansion of the dance.

Whereas "Modern" is definitely a style. Basically the influence of Raqia.

i've seen clips defined as classical where no "belly" bellydancing seems to be going on, it seems more ball roomy with lots of turns, moving steps, and striking poses, with hip swerves, swoops, and shimmies, more western influenced seeming. then other classical defined clips like fifi abdou for instance, which seem like a funked up stylisation or progression from baladi to my untrained eye, or, rather more like the modern oriental stuff i've seen.

The ballroomy stuff is probably by the Golden Age dancers. Remember Badia's target audience was European and teh Europhile upperclass Egyptians.

my teacher has refered to classical as fifi abdou and soheir zaki, but then she also makes a distinction saying theres courtly classical and then theres modern classical, which confuses me even more! but here i've seen the same be referred to as modern, that is Fifi, any links, experienced knowledgables out there with an opinion on that matter?

oh yes , on a lesser not, has anyone watch Hilary Thackers DVD's on Baladi, and have you also seen Ranya Renee's DVD's on Baladi, why does the vocabulary and stylisation seem to differ so?

The adjective "courtly" is normally used for Persian reconstructions. Not a term I've heard used for Egyptian.

I wouldn't call Fifi's dance "Modern". Modern is more Dina. Fifi does Classical and really great beledi. She is the definition of bint il balad.

"Beledi" covers a wide range of styles - I think there is another thread here on that. Therefore it is not surprising that there would be videos out there showing different facets of it. There may even be videos out there incorrectly labelled

 

[ababalond]

i've put this up on couple of boards, i thought i'd get a mixture of opinions just seeing one thing refered to alittle differently a few times, but its cool to see generally all the replies a quite sympathetic to one and other. its been educating. i've been making notes for my LJ journal, as a student of BD. i didn't realise there a quite so many experienced teachers and dancers, and pro's, on here, like they'd be busy with other things or something. rather nifty online network.