Suggestions for Arabic courses?

[Phoebedances]

This year, I have several 'goals' for my life and dance, one of which is to learn Arabic to have a deeper appreciation of what I dance to. I'd like to focus on the Egyptian dialect, since I've heard that is more common in music than other dialects.

I can't afford Rosetta Stone's course, which is over $500, and was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for good courses that are more reasonably priced. I plan to buy a course in the next week or so.

I don't know if the travel-type courses would be so good, since mostly they are about taking cabs and finding bathrooms and places to eat.

Any suggestions?

 

[shiradotnet]

I don't know how realistic it is for home study in Arabic to lead you to a point where you can understand song lyrics. However, I think it's a commendable goal, and I believe that even if you can only pick out isolated words, that will be a vast improvement over knowing nothing at all. I have been learning Arabic by audio CD since March. I just do 15 minutes here and 15 minutes there while tooling around in my car, which fits my lifestyle.

I chose to get the audio CD set sold by Pimsleur. They sell two different packages - there's the 10-lesson package, which has a low, affordable price ranging from $10 to $50 depending on whether you buy it new or used, and then there's the 30-lesson package which costs much more. I think Amazon lists the 30-lesson package for $345, but they have some vendors selling it used for as little as $135.

So far, I've completed lesson 18 out of 30. I was able to make good use of the knowledge when I was in Egypt. For example, when I fell and sprained my foot, and the non-English-speaking bus driver was asking me, "Kwyissa? Kwyissa?" I knew from my studies he was asking me, "Are you okay? Are you okay?"

I'm happy with the Pimsleur series. There's a lot more detail about how I use it, what I've learned, etc. in a 3-part series of articles I wrote for Jareeda magazine. I think part 1 appeared in the most recent issue, and parts 2 and 3 are coming up soon. You might ask your dance friends whether anybody subscribes so you can borrow their copies and read it.

By the way, Rosetta Stone offers only Modern Standard Arabic, which is a different dialect from Egyptian Arabic. I ruled out Rosetta Stone for several reasons, and that is one of them. Another is that I prefer audio CD's (Pimsleur) over computer software (Rosetta Stone) because it works best with my schedule to study when I'm driving my car. A third is the price.

 

[Maria_Aya]

I'm voting also for CD's Pimsleur
I got them 2 years now, and also like Shira said driving and listening them, they helped me alot.

good luck and a happy new year

maria aya

 

[Phoebedances]

Thank you both, Shira and Maria Aya!

I do a whole lot of driving. Each way to work is 45 minutes for me, so audio CD's would be the way to go. I'll look into the Pimsleur ones, since both of you recommend them. I found a site online that gives alot of translations of songs, but the Arabic lyrics are written in Arabic script, which I need to learn before I know what the Arabic word is. Also, I have no clue about the feminine/masculine tenses of words or how things are conjugated, so I need some place to start before I can puzzle that out.

Even if I can understand a little, it will be so much fun to know what they are saying. Maybe I can even sing along. :dance::dance:

 

[shiradotnet]

I found a site online that gives alot of translations of songs, but the Arabic lyrics are written in Arabic script, which I need to learn before I know what the Arabic word is.

Have you tried my lyrics translations on my web site? I have translations for almost 100 Arabic-language songs, as well as a few Turkish, Greek, Hebrew, and Armenian ones. See Translations to Song Lyrics from the Middle East and North Africa . I have transliterations in the Roman alphabet for a lot of the songs.

Also, I have no clue about the feminine/masculine tenses of words or how things are conjugated, so I need some place to start before I can puzzle that out.

Pimsleur's definitely covers this. Their approach is different from a typical college language class, because they don't go into all that in the very first lesson, but they inject bits and pieces of it along the way.

 

[Tezirah]

I bought the basic Pimsleur course back in July and got through about four discs before being distracted (probably by something jingly or shiney!). Made a fresh start with it this week and was amazed to discover that I still remember everything I learned in the summer, so it must work on some deep, mysterious level. My only problem with these CDs is that the man seems to mumble a bit sometimes and I have trouble working out exactly how he's pronouncing things. The woman is crystal clear.

 

[shiradotnet]

FYI, I personally tend to linger about 2-3 hours on each 30-minute lesson. If I make too many mistakes in the review at the beginning of the lesson, I'll repeat the review until I've completely got it right. Once the lesson finishes the review and starts teaching new material, I'll work with about 10 minutes of the new material, then rewind the CD and repeat that section, and do that 4-5 times, to make sure I've really got it before I move on. And so on.

I tend to be slow at stuff like vocabulary memorization, so all the repetition helps me out a lot.

 

[Phoebedances]

I bought the basic Pimsleur course back in July and got through about four discs before being distracted (probably by something jingly or shiney!). Made a fresh start with it this week and was amazed to discover that I still remember everything I learned in the summer, so it must work on some deep, mysterious level. My only problem with these CDs is that the man seems to mumble a bit sometimes and I have trouble working out exactly how he's pronouncing things. The woman is crystal clear.

Well, my brother mumbles, so perhaps I'll be able to understand Arabic mumblers too. :lol::lol:

I can so relate to the being distracted by shiny/jingly stuff. Perhaps Belly Dancers are part Magpie?

Have you tried my lyrics translations on my web site? I have translations for almost 100 Arabic-language songs, as well as a few Turkish, Greek, Hebrew, and Armenian ones. See Translations to Song Lyrics from the Middle East and North Africa . I have transliterations in the Roman alphabet for a lot of the songs.

I haven't looked at those yet, but I'll make a point of checking it out! Thanks so much, Shira! You're the best!

 

[Marya]

For those of you who have used Pimsleur, are there any materials to help with learning the written alphabet? I have a sampler of Rosetta stone with a few lessons of Arabic on it and although I also don't like using the computer for so long a period of time it does include the written word as well as spoken.

Marya

 

[shiradotnet]

The low-priced 10-lesson version does not come with resources to learn Arabic alphabet. The high-priced 30-lesson version does come with a booklet, but I confess I have not spent any time working with it, so I can't comment on its merits.

This article on my web site written by Arabella recommends two books for learning the Arabic alphabet:

Untitled

I've purchased one of the books she recommends, but I have to confess I haven't taken it off the shelf to work with its contents, so again I can't personally comment on its merits.

 

[Sita]

This year, I have several 'goals' for my life and dance, one of which is to learn Arabic to have a deeper appreciation of what I dance to. I'd like to focus on the Egyptian dialect, since I've heard that is more common in music than other dialects.

I can't afford Rosetta Stone's course, which is over $500, and was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for good courses that are more reasonably priced. I plan to buy a course in the next week or so.

I don't know if the travel-type courses would be so good, since mostly they are about taking cabs and finding bathrooms and places to eat.

Any suggestions?

One way is to go your library find the cd courses available and see which one works best for you. That way you don't end up wasting money on a course that doesn't work for you. The Michel Thomas method is very basic and you pick it up incredibly quickly without trying however I have heard the Pimsleur is better (just have to work out where to get a copy from here )

Sita

 

[Zanbaka]

I was able to find both Modern Standard Arabic and Egyptian dialect cd's at the Seattle library last year when I was brushing up on my college Arabic. Many libraries have exchange programs with other libraries, so if you pester them enough, hopefully they can find some material for you.

Good luck!
~Zanbaka

 

[shiradotnet]

The Michel Thomas method is very basic and you pick it up incredibly quickly without trying

Hmmm, I wonder if it would be a good "next step" after I finish Pimsleur, as in offering additional vocabulary words and nuances of grammar.

However I have heard the Pimsleur is better (just have to work out where to get a copy from here

Although you're in the UK, you should be able to order from the U.S. version of Amazon - ie, Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more . Although I'm in the U.S., I've periodically ordered stuff from the U.K. version of Amazon (ie, Amazon.co.uk: low prices in Electronics, Books, Music, DVDs & more ), when they weren't stocked by U.S. distributors. I've also ordered from Amazon.de: Günstige Preise bei Elektronik & Foto, DVD, Musik, Bücher, Games, Spielzeug & mehr (German version) and Amazon.fr: livres, DVD, jeux video, CD, lecteurs MP3, ordinateurs, appareils photo, logiciels et plus encore! (France).

 

[Tezirah]

I have heard the Pimsleur is better (just have to work out where to get a copy from here )

Sita

I am in UK and I bought mine direct from the Pimsleur site. I think the shipping was about $10.

 

[Sita]

Just wanted to sat thanks to Shiradotnet and Tezirah for the info - I will definitly check it out

Sita

 

[karena]

I was about to recommend the Michel Thomas stuff as I have used it for French and really liked the approach, which is different to anything I've seen before. Thought I'd google Pimsleur first so I knew what you were all talking about and am now confused as maybe this is like Michel Thomas? The Pimsleur seems really coded and won't actually say what it is beyond 'revolutionary' 'scientific' blah blah blah. Is it a no paper and pen, learn by hearing kind of method? Does anyone know the similarities/differences between them?

 

[shiradotnet]

The Pimsleur seems really coded and won't actually say what it is beyond 'revolutionary' 'scientific' blah blah blah. Is it a no paper and pen, learn by hearing kind of method?

I can't compare Pimsleur and Michel Thomas because I've never used products by Michel Thomas. But I can answer your questions about Pimsleur.

Pimsleur is solely audio CD. There's no paper and pen. I use it when I'm driving my car.

The structure of Pimsleur lessons centers around teaching you how to have a conversation, rather than giving you a bunch of grammar rules to memorize. For example, Pimsleur might first teach you to say, "I would like..." and drills that a while. Then it teaches you to say, "I would like to drink..." and drills that. Then it teaches you how to say, "I would like to drink something," then "I would like to drink coffee/tea," then "I would like to drink some coffee/tea." Along the way it teaches the "you" form such as "You would like...", then "You would like to drink..." and teaches you how to frame that as a question, "Would you like to drink...?" After 18 lessons, I still don't know how to say he/she/it/they/we would like to drink, whereas a traditional grammar class would have taught all of that the first time it introduced the word for "drink".

Over time, as you learn ways to say the "I", masculine "you", and feminine "you" forms of speak, understand (a concept), comprehend (a language), eat, drink, want, would like, etc., you start to notice the patterns on your own, and can start making educated guesses about how a newly-introduced verb might be used. And in fact, once you've gotten into the later lessons, it actually does introduce some new verbs and ask you to predict what the I/you forms will be, then tells you the correct info.

People who are accustomed to the academic grammar-rules method of learning a language may find that Pimsleur's approach takes some getting used to because it's different. I learned French and Spanish through the academic grammar-rules approach, and I learned German through a combination of conversation (with my grandmother) and academic grammar rules. I do acknowledge that my academically-trained brain feels like something is missing with Pimsleur since they haven't spoon-fed me the rules and instead are leaving me to figure them out. However, I've learned a lot by just following their lessons, so I'm learning to put some trust in their method. It's working for me.

 

[shiradotnet]

Karena, can you describe how the Michel Thomas course is structured, based on your experience of using it to study French? Is it entirely audio, or does it require paper and pen? What types of things did it teach you to say in French? Did it focus on grammar rules (ie, here is an indirect object, and now here is how to use it in a sentence, and here is the rule for conjugating a regular verb in the x famliy) or did it just focus on telling you how to say stuff and let you figure out the grammatical rule on your own?

After I finish the 30 lessons of the Pimsleur set, I'll probably want to continue my Arabic studies, so I'm interested in learning about other resources out there and what people think of them. I especially like using audio CD's, and I want to continue focusing on the Egyptian dialect of Arabic.

 

[karena]

Thanks Shira. Sounds like it might be a bit different. Michel Thomas I would say is less structured than that. Rather than phrases I think it's more sounds. I can't think of a good way to explain, and it's been a while. If anyone really wants to know I can listen to it again and explain better. I found it really good though.

I am from the language learning through phrase rather than grammar generation in the UK. My parents learnt through grammar but we just learnt phrases and pretty much no grammar. But I did study German to a more advanced level so did the grammar then. Personally I think a combination of the two works - phrases are important and engaging, but you're not then given the tools to work things out with no grammar.

(I am also of a particular age where we learnt no grammar in English at school. I honestly didn't know what a verb was until I did German at an advanced stage :shok:. I knew there were 'doing words' but it didn't progress beyond that, and I was honestly a good student. I think it was some period in history when they decided children shouldn't be restricted by grammar rules, who knows. I was part of a similar now defunct experiment with teaching science, but now I really am digressing...)

 

[karena]

Karena, can you describe how the Michel Thomas course is structured, based on your experience of using it to study French? Is it entirely audio, or does it require paper and pen? What types of things did it teach you to say in French? Did it focus on grammar rules (ie, here is an indirect object, and now here is how to use it in a sentence, and here is the rule for conjugating a regular verb in the x famliy) or did it just focus on telling you how to say stuff and let you figure out the grammatical rule on your own?

After I finish the 30 lessons of the Pimsleur set, I'll probably want to continue my Arabic studies, so I'm interested in learning about other resources out there and what people think of them. I especially like using audio CD's, and I want to continue focusing on the Egyptian dialect of Arabic.

Ooo crossed posts. Will try and find it and listen. Watch this space....