history of dance costumes

[Ahava_Melantha]

does anyone know of a good history thing on belly dance costumes?

also, I was wanting to know if belly dancers have always worn bras/belts & skirts? have dancers always bared their belly. or is it a recent times thing?

 

[Daimona]

Take a look at this thread:
http://bellydanceforums.net/dance-costumes/16794-fashion-belly-dance-over-years.html

It isn't an extensively written document, but you might get an idea..

 

[shiradotnet]

does anyone know of a good history thing on belly dance costumes?

also, I was wanting to know if belly dancers have always worn bras/belts & skirts? have dancers always bared their belly. or is it a recent times thing?

There are a few articles on my web site that touch on this a bit. They're not exactly "history of belly dance costuming", but see the section on "Traditional Garb" to learn a bit about historical dance attire:

Index to Articles About Belly Dance Costumes on Shira.net (Site Map)

 

[Aniseteph]

Try this very old thread: http://bellydanceforums.net/other-dance-stuff/6961-history-belly-dance-costumes.html

(it isn't as terrifying as it looks - I think it drifted off topic after a while )

 

[Shanazel]

WHAT? Us drift off topic? Never. :naghty:

 

[Aniseteph]

I think it was in the olden days before there were rules against off-topicness. We wouldn't dream of it now, of course.

 

[shiradotnet]

Here's a blog with some great photos of Middle Eastern women: http://misrtoday-moro.blogspot.com/

This link takes you specifically to a photo in that blog of a group of dancers: http://misrtoday-moro.blogspot.com/2012/03/blog-post.html

 

[Ahava_Melantha]

thanx. beautiful vintage pic.

 

[Kashmir]

I was wanting to know if belly dancers have always worn bras/belts & skirts? have dancers always bared their belly. or is it a recent times thing?

Very recent. In Egypt it started around the time of Badia - ie post 1926. It was only accepted within the nightclub setting until the 1950s until then non-nighclub dancers wore dresses or skirts and blouses. The hip wrap was a constant though - but traditionally a shawl or scarf for non-nightclub dancers, beads for nighclubbing. (The coin belt was invented in the States in the 1970s)

 

[Shanazel]

Go, USA! Woo! Woo!

(I Looooove coin belts and bras.)

 

[mahsati_janan]

(The coin belt was invented in the States in the 1970s)

Hi Kashmir - you just mean the fabric hip scarf with coins here, right? I know that coined bra/belt sets were in use before then for stage, but I think the hip scarves with coins date from somewhere near the 1960s/70s from what I remember from a workshop with Morocco.

 

[Ahava_Melantha]

on classical egyptian films dating do 1930 and 1920 the belly dancers are wearing hip scarves, with coins.

 

[mahsati_janan]

on classical egyptian films dating do 1930 and 1920 the belly dancers are wearing hip scarves, with coins.

I thought I remembered that as well, but when I looked, I could only find the bra/belt sets with coins in the youtube videos I had saved. Do you have a link to any of the videos with coined hip scarves? I'd love to add the link to my list.

Here is the link to Morocco's article about the hip scarves: http://www.casbahdance.org/MARVELOUSMAHMOUD.htm

 

[Ahava_Melantha]

sorry, i don't see this as evidence that thats where it started in totallity. thats just the biography of a costume designer. that doesn't mean that such things didn't already exist and he saw an opportunity and exploited it.

Taheya Carioca 1939 - YouTube

couldn't find all the clips from earlier that I wanted but plenty from 1930's 40's 50's with coins.

 

[mahsati_janan]

sorry, i don't see this as evidence that thats where it started in totallity. thats just the biography of a costume designer. that doesn't mean that such things didn't already exist and he saw an opportunity and exploited it.

Oh - I don't mean that it is the definite history, just that this is the article that Morocco mentioned in the workshop when she said that she was there when coined scarves were first made.

I love history and keep all of the various stories I learn about the dance and then try to find primary and secondary sources to help determine which have the most credibility. In this case, I have found lots of example of coins sewn to clothes in various areas (especially by the Algerian Ouled Nail), coined bra/belt sets as early as the 'Golden Age' of Egyptian cinema, but I don't have any photos, videos, or other evidence for the coined hip scarf from before the 1960s/70s. It absolutely doesn't mean it wasn't there - just that I don't have any evidence to use. That's why I was asking for your link so I could add to my history file. Absence of evidence is never evidence of absence, so I just keep looking for more information to help triangulate the best answers possible.

Taheya Carioca 1939 - YouTube

couldn't find all the clips from earlier that I wanted but plenty from 1930's 40's 50's with coins.

This one is a bra/belt set rather than a hip scarf. This is actually one of the earliest coined bedlah sets I have found on film and have in my file, but it isn't the same as the hip scarf with coins. If you have anything with a hip scarf, I'd always be interested in seeing it to add to my file. Thanks!

 

[Kashmir]

Hi Kashmir - you just mean the fabric hip scarf with coins here, right? I know that coined bra/belt sets were in use before then for stage, but I think the hip scarves with coins date from somewhere near the 1960s/70s from what I remember from a workshop with Morocco.

Yes the wraps. Invented by Edwina Nearing - late 1970s. Mahmoud abd el Ghaffar started making them post 1978.

I have found lots of example of coins sewn to clothes in various areas (especially by the Algerian Ouled Nail), coined bra/belt sets as early as the 'Golden Age' of Egyptian cinema, but I don't have any photos, videos, or other evidence for the coined hip scarf from before the 1960s/70s. It absolutely doesn't mean it wasn't there - just that I don't have any evidence to use. That's why I was asking for your link so I could add to my history file. Absence of evidence is never evidence of absence, so I just keep looking for more information to help triangulate the best answers possible.

Coins on the body as dowry etc has a long history - as necklaces, chest adornment, headwear - but I have never heard of it sewn on the butt - you never going to sit down? Remember traditionally there were no "costumes" - special every day clothes were used to dance in - even by professionals. With the birth of raqs sharqi in the 1920s new costumes - such as the bra, belt and skirt emerged. These had no every day use. (About the same time the Banat Maazin also developed a special costume - but no coin wraps).

It is possible that Edwina came up with something that already existed - but I really cannot see dancers risking their savings by sitting on them.

 

[Daimona]

It is possible that Edwina came up with something that already existed - but I really cannot see dancers risking their savings by sitting on them.

And an unqualified guess/hypothesis:
Could it be possible that the first coined hip scarf came up as a coined headscarf tied around the hips and that it evolved from there?

(no, I don't have anything to back this up with, it is simply an unqualified guess)

 

[Amulya]

Yes the wraps. Invented by Edwina Nearing - late 1970s. Mahmoud abd el Ghaffar started making them post 1978.

The beaded crochetted ones were apparently 'invented' by Morocco and her dance sisters. I'm not sure, but I think I read something about this on her web site.

 

[Kashmir]

The beaded crochetted ones were apparently 'invented' by Morocco and her dance sisters. I'm not sure, but I think I read something about this on her web site.

Yes, by Morocco & Scheherezade - slightly after (about a year I think). It's also in her new book - but without the exact timetable.

 

[Amulya]

I got to buy her book, keep forgetting