Charging people to practice with you? Hmmmm

[Bast]

Came across this strange ad in my local classifieds.

"Hi, I'm ******, I want to share what I learnt and practice so I won't forget. I offer classes only $5.00. Good quality and good for both my students and me. My teacher has a (***** background and had had classes with ******) I am an intermediate student. If you want to have fun, learn and why not be a apart of a troup for further presentations. Join me. I don't do it for the money, but for the fun and practice."

I have removed some info to protect their privacy.

I can't help feeling this is wrong. If not in it for the money then why charge at all? If you charge for a lesson then does that bring up insurance issues? I wonder if their teacher knows about it, would she care? It seems a strange thing to do, to charge someone to practice with you...

Any opinions?

 

[Roshanna]

Definitely dodgy. She's essentially advertising herself as a teacher, whilst trying to pretend that that's not what she's doing. And indeed, presumably undercutting (not sure what $5 comes to in £ but I'm pretty sure it'd be less than £5, which would already be cheap here), probably justifying it to herself by thinking she shouldn't charge more because she's not a proper teacher. When in fact, she shouldn't be teaching at all if she's not a proper teacher.

If she wants other dancers of her own level to practise with, she should be asking for that, not for students. And she shouldn't be charging them (though splitting a room hire fee is fair enough). It would make a lot more sense for her to ask the other students in her class if they want to meet up outside of class to practise than to place a classified ad.

I imagine that this person's teacher would not be thrilled if she knew about this!

ETA: And yes, if she's charging people for a class, surely all the usual stuff about insurance, health & safety etc would apply, the same as for any class....

 

[Safran]

What it reads to me is - I will give you exactly what my teacher teaches, but at a much lower price. And if it really is the case, this is not cool at all! I am all for out-of class practicing, but if you want practice-buddies, ask around in your class, not put up an advert. And I agree with Roshanna - it is ok to ask people to share studio cost, but that is pretty much it.

Bast, do you know the teacher mentioned in the advert? Maybe it is a good idea to turn her/his attention to it?

 

[Darshiva]

As soon as she mentioned the word students she began undercutting her own teacher. Call her teacher & ask if she gave the student the okay to do this. If so, then it's cool (at least to the person who matters) and if not, the teacher knows what's going on and can deal with it as she so chooses.

 

[Greek Bonfire]

Shyster, that's for sure. Definitely not ethical at all, and why would I pay to practice with her when I can practice many other things from YouTube for free? I hope no one is gullible enough to fall for this.

 

[Roxannya]

I'm all for practicing with my fellow class/dancemates to build deeper relationships with them and to maybe smooth
out some rough spots we may have. We also share and learn from each other all them time. But as a student, I
would never claim to be at a level to instruct. I see how involved that is when I watch my capable instructor. Being
in a class with a comprehensive instructor doesn't make me want to teach, it makes me want to scrutinize who I learn
from.

It shouldn't take long for the instructor in this situation to catch on to what her student is doing if she didn't okay this.
Pretty tacky behavior in my opinion.

 

[Ariadne]

I read to me like a poorly worded attempt to form a troop and the "good deal" is to cover expenses. Probably not the best thought out ad or idea.

 

[Yame]

Sounds like the advertiser herself hasn't quite fleshed out what she actually intends to do.

She’s flirting with three separate ideas here:

1. Finding practice buddies to form a practice group
2. Forming a troupe
3. Teaching a class

These are very different goals, which require different approaches. If all she wants is a practice group, then I’d suggest finding people to practice with, but not setting up a charge. In a practice group, everyone is more or less equal, giving and taking knowledge and tips and learning something from one another.

From the moment someone steps up as a leader to actually teach or lead this group, then it becomes a class, or troupe (depending on the goals and dynamics). At that point, it becomes okay to charge the students/members.

If one is teaching a class, the price for the class should not be far from the standard price for belly dance classes, so as not to undercut other teachers. If one is leading a troupe, it is acceptable to set up troupe dues in order to recover costs incurred. $5 sounds like a more reasonable troupe due than a class fee, but it depends on a lot of variables.

Starting a troupe seems to be more in line with this person’s goals, but if that’s what she wants to do, she needs to focus on that and not try to make it into something else (like a class or practice group). If what she wants is a class or a practice group, the $5 charge is either too low (for a class) or unnecessary and exploitative (for a practice group).

 

[Farasha Hanem]

My first reaction to this was, "What? What?? WHAT?!?!?" >:0

Definitely inform her teacher of her activity; she can decide what to do with her. I just hope newbies to bellydance don't respond to her ad. I can see the potential for ALL kinds of trouble, physical and legal, not to mention if she does manage to attract some "students," the low quality of "instruction" they'd receive. Things like this absolutely burn my biscuits!!! >:/

Whoops, I was going to say that f I were a teacher, and a student of mine pulled this kind of bull-baloney AND dragged MY name into it, she'd be shimmying all the way to legal court! >:/

 

[Shanazel]

Tacky-tacky. If she was looking for folks to share the cost of a practice space with her it would be different.

 

[Munniko]

Most of me wants to think the best of this person and say she just poorly worded her attempt to share the cost of practice space. If this is not the case then I find a lot wrong with that. You should never charge someone to practice with you because well they wont learn anything because you aren't prepared to break down the movements for other people and explain them in multiple ways in order for some one to understand what you are doing.

As a former teacher I just don't like it, if you are doing this for the joy of practice then no cost should be present unless specifically state "for practice space".

 

[Bast]

What it reads to me is - I will give you exactly what my teacher teaches, but at a much lower price. And if it really is the case, this is not cool at all! I am all for out-of class practicing, but if you want practice-buddies, ask around in your class, not put up an advert. And I agree with Roshanna - it is ok to ask people to share studio cost, but that is pretty much it.

Bast, do you know the teacher mentioned in the advert? Maybe it is a good idea to turn her/his attention to it?

No I don't and I thought I pretty much knew all of the teachers in my area. She did reference tribal style and I am not aware of any teachers near me who do tribal, but this could be because I'm not in that loop.

I also have no idea who the student is. If one of my classmates did that I would have to say something to them.

If it was one of the teachers I knew personally, I would have a quiet word. My reaction was pretty much the same as everyone's here, but at first I thought maybe I was over reacting.

I often have classmates around to practice but that is a symbiotic relationship, no money changes hands. We have all put in a few $ for studio time to prepare for upcomming performances but none of us were playing teacher.

I want to say maybe it was a bit of a newbie mistake, but really an intermediate dancer should know better, and like Farasha said, it could open up a world of trouble for this dancer.

 

[Darshiva]

Bast, pm me the teacher's name. I thought for a while that we might be moving to Brisbane so I researched everywhere from Caboolture to Shorncliffe to Beenleigh to Ipswich and chances are I may know how to get in contact with her.

 

[Aniseteph]

Most of me wants to think the best of this person and say she just poorly worded her attempt to share the cost of practice space.

That shows you are a kind person. But I don't buy poorly worded.

I offer classes only $5.00. Good quality and good for both my students and me.

The mindset seems quite clear to me. Classes implies teacher and students, and then she said it.

I would avoid this with a 10 foot pole. Whose benefit is this for - the "teacher" who admits she is doing this to practise, or the students? As Yame said, it looks like several concepts are being muddled up here, and IMO that is a recipe for disaster on many levels.

Getting together to practise and sharing expenses is completely different and I'd have thought most teachers would be thrilled that their students were that dedicated. I do think you need to be very careful that it doesn't tip over into a teacher/student situation though (undercutting, inexperienced students teaching each other wrong stuff... :naghty.

 

[shiradotnet]

I have a question for those of you who said this person's teacher should be told about it: What, exactly, would you expect the teacher to do about it? I don't think there's much the teacher can do to stop it.

 

[Shanazel]

We're programmed from kindergarten to "tell the teacher" if anything is wrong.

However loathsome, deplorable, unethical, and downright tacky a student's behavior may be, what she does outside my classroom is none of my business and beyond my control.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

I have a question for those of you who said this person's teacher should be told about it: What, exactly, would you expect the teacher to do about it? I don't think there's much the teacher can do to stop it.

I was hoping that the teacher could talk to the student and teach her about ethics and about the risk she would be putting herself in if she went through with this not-so-well-thought-out idea. I would want MY teacher to let me know if I were fixing to do something that could get me in a heap of trouble.

 

[Bast]

Bast, pm me the teacher's name. I thought for a while that we might be moving to Brisbane so I researched everywhere from Caboolture to Shorncliffe to Beenleigh to Ipswich and chances are I may know how to get in contact with her.

The teacher's name is not mentioned, only who the teacher studied with. I'll pm you the original ad.

 

[Darshiva]

I have a question for those of you who said this person's teacher should be told about it: What, exactly, would you expect the teacher to do about it? I don't think there's much the teacher can do to stop it.

It's not so much a matter of stopping it from happening so much as giving the teacher the opportunity to talk to the student involved about it. Or to at least know it's happening. I know I'd be horrified if one of my students decided to start undercutting me (no matter how noble her intentions) and nobody told me about it. I'd want to know. Personally, I'd take the opportunity to talk to the student and maybe guide them towards teacher training of some sort so that at the very least nobody got hurt.

 

[gisela]

If this person is using the teacher's material to teach to others then I think the teacher should be told. She might not be able to do anything about this particular situation but for the future, begin to include more clauses about usage of her material, and even include some advice on ethical behaviour in her classes.