The like and Dislike of Fusion Belly dance

[goddessyasaman]

YouTube - Gothla - Sashi

See, this dancer is a good dancer (if she dropped the mask and music choice maybe) but I consider this performance far removed from belly dance. It doesnt seem to have the same atmosphere as BD, and although the movements are there, I don't think that the movements fit the music.

I do think that some fusion styles are close to BD, but there are those dances which except for using some movements from belly dance have nothing else in common. These dances for me are the ones I would consider as being outside of belly dance.

Now this dancer I know of her, well because i also do Goth Belly dance, I had started a thread on Goth Belly dance and your not alone on the thinking that it is Not really like Belly dance, But may I ask "What is the atmosphere of BD to you?"

A good belly dancer can move to just about any song you give them if the wanted to,

here is another video of the same dancer, and goth belly dancers are know for there makeup and costumes along with the feel of watching a play.

YouTube - Gothic bellydance

 

[Sara]

This performance from her I liked. I think here she captured a lot more of the essence of belly dance.

For me the essence is the music, the way a dancer responds to the music, the way the performance makes you feel. In relation to belly dance I personally expect to hear ME influenced music, movements which are executed in a way which resembles ME dancing and I want to feel like I have just watched belly dancing. I think here I felt that she was fusing the two styles much better because she managed to take both belly dance and gothic culture and blend it well maintain about 50/50 out each style. In her other performance I would have said 30/70. 30 belly dance because of some of the movements that she used.

I think this was good fusion and I enjoyed it ^_^

About the moving to any piece of music. I don't think that being able to move to any kind of music makes you a good belly dancer. i think it makes you a good dancer. I myself use belly dancing movements to dance to many different types of music, but I do not call it belly dance. I think of it as me dancing in a way I know how to dance, to other types of music. I do not think people should limit their movement vocabulary to one style of dance, however I think that if you are performing in public, certain considerations for cultures and audiences should be undertaken.

 

[LadyLoba]

I agree with Kashmir and Belly Love...

I think if someone is going to practice a fusion form of dance, they need to learn both dance forms or other art forms that they are fusing first, and then blend them together..not just take the little bits they feel like taking from each form and not bothering with the rest. That's not fusing anything, that's just being lazy at two things.

And I'm no expert in dance yet...but you can usually tell the difference between someone fusing any two fields well and someone who is just not bothering to learn one or both fields.

Take my favorite writer, John Grisham...he is a lot of people's favorite and his work is so enjoyable because he expertly fuses the fields of fiction writing and the field of law....and he is both a real writer (obviously) and a real lawyer...knowledge, work, and study of both fields is evident.

To apply that to belly dance...a good fusion in my mind would be someone who...for example...was highly trained and skilled in belly dance and also highly trained and skilled in...say....salsa dance...and knew how to blend them together well.

Belly Love...I disliked those two examples as well...the Transylvania one....was that supposed to be a fusion of belly dance and improvisational acting??? Because to me it looked like really bad improv with some belly dance thrown in. The cowgirl one I didn't like either. It looked like they were trying to fuse belly dance with country line dancing but weren't that good at either form..

 

[Imeera]

I think this is the best way to teach a fusion style. I think that to truly fuse two dance styles you need to have knowledge of both. You are probably in the minority of teachers though. I know a lot who dont teach about the backgrounds.

I think this is crucial.

Also, when I went to my first belly dance class, the teacher asked me what kind I learnt and I named a few of the DvD's I was learning from and she said "American? ... Well this is Egytpian, its quite different!" I suddenly relised that in the DvDs I had there was no true Egyptian style and it made me sad thinking I had never experienced it. I can't even find an Egyptian style DvD. As a beginner, you can't tell the difference, I thought I really was learning Egyptian style not "American belly dance" I honestly didn't know that existed xD I think a lot has gotten mixed up in this way and its not very clear which style your learning or what styles exist. I still don't know what "Cabaret" really is" Its okay to a certain time of your learning of belly dance, the basics ect, but after you start leaning putting things together its crucial to know what style your actually learning xD

 

[goddessyasaman]

This performance from her I liked. I think here she captured a lot more of the essence of belly dance.

For me the essence is the music, the way a dancer responds to the music, the way the performance makes you feel. In relation to belly dance I personally expect to hear ME influenced music, movements which are executed in a way which resembles ME dancing and I want to feel like I have just watched belly dancing. I think here I felt that she was fusing the two styles much better because she managed to take both belly dance and gothic culture and blend it well maintain about 50/50 out each style. In her other performance I would have said 30/70. 30 belly dance because of some of the movements that she used.

I think this was good fusion and I enjoyed it ^_^

About the moving to any piece of music. I don't think that being able to move to any kind of music makes you a good belly dancer. i think it makes you a good dancer. I myself use belly dancing movements to dance to many different types of music, but I do not call it belly dance. I think of it as me dancing in a way I know how to dance, to other types of music. I do not think people should limit their movement vocabulary to one style of dance, however I think that if you are performing in public, certain considerations for cultures and audiences should be undertaken.

can't say that your wrong, but belly dance moves don't really change cause of the music maybe slow or fast movement change but you would still be belly dancing as the moves are belly dance moves you would just be belly dancing to different music. Now I learned Turkish cab first then egyptian style second, but I don't care much for egyptian style as my lead style only because it just did'nt call to me ( and I did'nt care for the costumes)as the other styles I have learned, but thats just how I feel. I do think that the fusion styles should have fusion style music as well some kind of middle eastern feel should be used if it can be done, but it would be hard to find bands for every kind of fusion:think:

 

[Aniseteph]

The physical technique behind the movement may not change with the music/style, but the intent and feeling should. IMO.

 

[Sara]

I agree! I think there is so much that makes Belly dance what it is other than just movements. There is music, stylisations, the intent of the performances, and the cultural aspects are present in the dance and which have influenced the dance.

A good example is looking at Roman Havasi. There are movements used in Belly dance in this style, but it is not called belly dance. It is different. There are many movements used in belly dance which are used in other dance forms, but they are not called belly dance because of the way the moves are executed, the music etc.

Context is very important. :think:

 

[goddessyasaman]

I'm not saying that there is not a lot behind belly dance in a whole I think everyone knows that even fusion dancers and dancer who have yet to learn, I can not say what was and is in the mind of the creator of a fusion style unless I am said creator of said style people can only say what they think was behind the creation of a fusion style, though I would love to talk to such a person.

But I think if I step back and listen to all that I have heard about fusion styles(not meaning just on this thread) but in a whole, It gets a raw deal most of the time.

I think people forget that humans are different all around the world, and as Belly dance traveled to different places it changed each time if it did not then there would not be different styles, When including america in the lot fusion would happen more offten then not since america is mixed of all types of races and people.

Music is really important as well, but again everyone used there style of music as it traveled, so no shock yet again on the music change.

All I can say is there will always be people who don't like something and then there will be people who like the same thing that the other group did'nt like.
Is there not enough room in this art form for everyones creativity? Ofcourse you have to draw the line at dance styles and movement because mixing a Cowgirl with belly dance is not fusing dance styles now thats just dressing up.

 

[Daimona]

I can't even find an Egyptian style DvD.

Pssst... there are some dvd's teaching egyptian style. Just see the http://www.bellydanceforums.net/instructors-students/14593-instructional-dvds.html#post175935-thread.


And to get back on topic: I second every word of Kashmir's post!

 

[Aniseteph]

IMO fusion gets a raw deal because you see a whole lot of terrible stuff out there with the belly dance label slapped on it because it has a few hip moves, and if anyone tries to call people out for it there's a chorus of How Dare You Stifle My Artistic Creativity, followed by the one about purists, and evolution.

The good thing about evolution is that it has a way of taking care of stuff that doesn't work so well.

I'm interested in how specific fusion classes work as far as students picking it up and learning to make something of it themselves. I've never been to these - how does it work?

I'm doing Egyptian style so my teacher has one angle on it but there's a whole culture behind the "rules" of what movements work, music, costume etc. But if someone teaches her own fusion style are they her rules? or does everyone get to do their own thing with it? in which case how long before you dilute all the belly dance (and her fusion) out?

 

[MissVega]

I think that it is important to point out that with or without fusion, there are still "Belly dancers" who don't care to learn about the music, history, culture etc. I think you will get that in anything really, not just specific to dance.

I might be biased as I perform both bellydance and fusion, but I think it is like anything else, it needs to be done properly and I agree with the previous posts that have pointed out that you need KNOW both styles that you are fusing for it to be successful.

Would I confidently get up and perform to a soca song using just soca movement? Yes. Would I confidently get up and perform to bellydance music using just bellydance movement? Yes. Would I confidently get up and perform to dancehall using just dancehall movement? Yes (providing the crowd was appropriate and the song lyrics were LOL). If you can't perform each of the styles that you're fusing independently and teach them independently then I think it is time to go back to the drawing board.

When I do teach I make it clear what genre of caribbean music I'm using, and what moves are appropriate to fuse with bellydance. Ie. I feel dutty wine fits in nicely in fusion pieces, however I don't think I'll toss a handstand with a booty pop into any of my fusion performances. It would not be appropriate by my standards.

I think one of the main problems with fusion is that in order for the audience to "get it" they need to be familiar with the styles being fused as well and as a performer you have to adjust and allow for it.

in my experience I get most comments on my fusion costumes along the lines of "you should wear jeans or leggings or something more urban". I can say that urban clothing has NOTHING to do with Caribbean culture, music or dance. Any more than jeans have anything to do with bellydance because their is a clip of Randa Kamal performing in jeans. Popular clothes tend to travel over into most cultures these days thanks to globalization, media etc.
For example, I could make a costume using Jamaica's national fabric/print. Try and imagine what you would think it looks like?
Have an idea?


It's a plaid. 97% of my audience in North America wouldn't know or get that and would be wondering why I am wearing plaid while dancing to Caribbean music:/
Because of some cross over music videos (ie sean paul, where the dancers are in more urban, hip hop, music video girl attire) people now associate that when they hear caribbean music. That being said I don't feel that shorts would be appropriate for a fusion with bellydance.

Caribbean carnival costumes worn all over the caribbean or any carnival festival simply resemble a bedlah without a skirt, just a thong, bikini bottom or fringe and a headdress/featherback of some sort.

So to me the natural choice for a fusion costume would be bedlah with skirt.
For reference, some girls in Carnival costumes (From the 2010 Jamaica Bacchanal).
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...402359077_100000689521343_108718_969612_n.jpg
The only people who have made this connection are typically those from the Caribbean or those who have been to Caribana, or a Caribbean carnival.

For interest sake, costumes of a Jamaican dance troupe, 1987.
http://hedonismanniversary.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Jamaican-Dance-Troop-September-1987.jpg

I've never bothered with a headdress because I like to toss my hair, head rolls etc. Last thing I would want is it ripping my hair out or the headdress flying into the audience LOL

While I think I've said this before I've also made an effort to make and buy costumes that I feel reflect both caribbean and bellydance since I've been asked at several performances (even middle eastern ones) to do both bellydance and Caribbean fusion. I've also made an effort to make sure that regardless of the music genre my costumes are appropriate for all ages. I'm proud of the fact that I have done a fair amount of family and children gigs and that children are a fan of my dancing.

That being said with fusion, if you care about it you have to be prepared to be patient with unfamiliar audiences and to educate them as you go and the only way to do that is to be familiar with the background, culture, music, and movement of all genres of dance that you are fusing.

However I don't feel I know everything about any dance genre, and don't think I ever will know everything but I am more than prepared to at least try to lol, even if it is in vain

I think in dance (Or anything) you have to accept that you WILL make mistakes, but I think there is value in making them if you're open to learning from them. The same applies to fusion and ANY dance genre. Some will love it, some will hate it, and some just flat out won't care.

I've made a point that when I've gone to competitions I've entered both the fusion and the traditional categories. If I am doing fusion then I should be able to do straight up bellydance as well since it is at the root of my fusion. I also use it as a guide to make sure I get various feedback. I went to Bellydancer of the Universe in California in Feb of this year and scored 96% in the Fusion category and 91% in the Egyptian category, 86% in Taxsim, and 81% in Drum Solo.

 

[MissVega]

IMO fusion gets a raw deal because you see a whole lot of terrible stuff out there with the belly dance label slapped on it because it has a few hip moves, and if anyone tries to call people out for it there's a chorus of How Dare You Stifle My Artistic Creativity, followed by the one about purists, and evolution.

The good thing about evolution is that it has a way of taking care of stuff that doesn't work so well.

I'm interested in how specific fusion classes work as far as students picking it up and learning to make something of it themselves. I've never been to these - how does it work?

I'm doing Egyptian style so my teacher has one angle on it but there's a whole culture behind the "rules" of what movements work, music, costume etc. But if someone teaches her own fusion style are they her rules? or does everyone get to do their own thing with it? in which case how long before you dilute all the belly dance (and her fusion) out?

I strongly agree with your first paragraph!~ And the second!

And interesting questions! Boyfriend wants computer though so I will have to get back to you on that:lol:

 

[red head miriam]

so many things to agree with

First I want to thank Kashmir for so succinctly stating what I've often felt.

And what Sara said about there being so much more to belly-dance than movements - I agree

I have seen lovely fusion, and some ...not so lovely. I respect the fusion dancers that first study to "core" or "classic" style/movements

 

[Greek Bonfire]

You are so right, the classics should never be forgotten. When someone fuses dance styles together I would hope that they have not forgotten where it has come from, but you know the people who watch are the ones that may not know, yet do the audience members care to know the history of middle eastern dance or do they just want to see a good dance, most just call it Belly dance and if they can see your belly and that it's moving then to them it maybe belly dance this is sad indeed.

When I Teach Belly dance I always teach my students about the different cultures,history and music from which belly dance comes from, but not every teacher does this. Also since I started doing my own fusion style, my students want to learn it but I have told them that I have to teach you the traditional dance styles I have learned first in order for me to teach you my fusion style, plus on top of that I would have to teach them the dance style in which I fuse with and the culture of that one as well. When I learned Tribal fusion I already had a Middle eastern dance background so for me it was another style and not my start as it is for some.

:clap: Bravo for you on this, Yasaman! :clap:

 

[Belly Love]

As an audience member it's the job of the performer to float MY boat. And if their floatedness contributes to my lack of it (because I have to sit through acres of this oh-so-edgy or meaningful aaahrty or "funny" fusion before I see someone doing some straight up belly dance), then to me it is not good at all.

:lol::lol::lol:

Yes, it is the job of a performer to entertain the audience. That's why I don't like when people say, "Who cares what your wearing to perform in, if it makes you feel good...". Uhm, no, you should care what your audience thinks. Unless you're performing in your basement in front of a mirror for only yourself, then it matters what the audience thinks.

in my experience I get most comments on my fusion costumes along the lines of "you should wear jeans or leggings or something more urban".

A belly dance in jeans is like a ballet dance in a snowsuit- does not make sense.

MissVega, you are a good example of what fusion should be like

Yame- Thanks for the help. I've been wanting to figure out how to do this forever, glad I finally asked!

Okay, now that I think about it, is Rachel brice fusion? Is ATS a fusion? I always thought it was... but maybe it's it's own style?

 

[Amulya]

I often like fusion styles, they can be inspiring because you see new combinations, costumes etc. and it's fun to see something different. But of course there are fusion styles that don't make sense to me at all... pirate belly dance anyone?

When I have more time, I'll have to read the whole thread, seems an interesting topic

 

[Kashmir]

belly dance moves don't really change cause of the music maybe slow or fast movement change but you would still be belly dancing as the moves are belly dance moves you would just be belly dancing to different music.

I disagree - the problem is "belly dance" is not a bunch of moves. There is nothing unique about a hip drop or circle or shoulder shimmy. What makes it "belly dance" as opposed to general dance is that it interprets and connects to Middle Eastern music in a specific way. This way changes with region, and musical styles within a region, but it isn't totally random. A big part of learning to belly dance - once past the really basic beginner how-to-move-your-hip - is learning how to interpret a style. If the music has no connection to the Middle East, by definition, you cannot be doing straight belly dance.

 

[Kashmir]

Is there not enough room in this art form for everyones creativity?

Depends whether you see it as "art" or "folk dance". Art has more (but not complete) freedom but folk dance is not a free for all.

 

[Bellydance Oz]

I think if someone is going to practice a fusion form of dance, they need to learn both dance forms... first, and then blend them together..not just take the little bits they feel like taking from each form and not bothering with the rest. That's not fusing anything, that's just being lazy at two things.

.

Yes, yes, yes, LadyLoba! Before switching to belly dance, I was a flamenco performer. I get really annoyed when I see a "flamenco fusion" piece by a dancer who clearly knows nothing about flamenco. To me, that's being disrespectful to another dance form.

I'm sure if I decided to choreograph an "ATS fusion" piece and just picked moves I can remember from seeing Devi Mamak perform, Tribal dancers would have something to say - but it's OK if they massacre my dance genre!

Don't get me wrong, they don't have to be technically perfect by any means - but when they use music from Latin America instead of Spain, and think it's enough to arch their back a couple of times, it gets my goat...

OK I'll get off my hobby horse now.

 

[Belly Love]

Before switching to belly dance, I was a flamenco performer. I get really annoyed when I see a "flamenco fusion" piece by a dancer who clearly knows nothing about flamenco. To me, that's being disrespectful to another dance form.

Did you read the Spanish Infusion thread? I would love to get your input.