The like and Dislike of Fusion Belly dance

[AndreaSTL]

I don't dislike fusion; I dislike fusion being presented to the GP as an authentic Middle East dance form. Call it fusion so folks don't confuse it with the real deal. Cabaret and folk dances have roots in the ME, but wearing camel tassels and dancing to Nine Inch Nails do not.

I've seen both good and horrid fusion pieces, but I can say the same for traditional dancing. Whether a performance is good and done well rests more on the dancer than the type of dance she's doing. In any case, a dancer must know her venue. I've done comedy numbers to Western music before, but would never dream of doing them at a festival or public event. Those are best left to haflas where other dancers will "get" it.

 

[Greek Bonfire]

I'm tired of fusion. In my area I can go to a belly dance show and see maybe three straight belly dance or folkloric pieces out of about thirty-five. If you don't like belly dance music and Middle Eastern culture, why pick belly dance to begin with? It may be good dance, but that doesn't make it belly dance.

This past year, I co-hosted a haflah. I put in an album by Cairo Orchestra, or somebody similar IDR, for everyone to free dance to. The Tribal Fusion dancers stopped dancing. I invited them to get back up and dance. They wouldn't because, "I don't know what kind of music that is". "Umm...it's belly dance music", I said. "I can't dance to that", they replied. This is a very, very bad thing.

I love belly dance just the way it is. Why oh why is there a need to change a cultural art form from the Middle East to include more Western elements? They do it; but it's also their dance. When we do it, *why* do we do it? Dumb it down for ourselves or our audiences? Or even worse, because it's not good enough unless it has European elements added to it? That's scarily close to racism.

American Oriental developed naturally from our immigrant communities. It was never an artificial construct. I like American Oriental and it's as close to fusion as I get. Thoughtful, educated and well done fusion, in by neck of the woods, is as rare as snake suspenders. Generally it's just a hot mess.

Belly dance is a cultural art from the Middle East that continues to evolve there. It is not a catch-all term for creative movement. If you don't want to use belly dance music and belly dance movement and technique, and can't connect with Middle Eastern musicality, what is the point? There are plenty of other dance forms out there to explore without impinging on an existing ethnic art.

In my very own personal opinion, I give you a standing ovation. There is way too much fushion and not enough ME dancing. In fact, a friend of mine is thinking of having a hafla with no fushion dancing allowed. Just for a change. And I don't see anything wrong with it, since you have all kinds of fushion and tribal events, why not just vintage style ME dance for a change? It's an eastern dance originally.

 

[MissVega]

I guess I'm on the fence on this. I just dislike bad performances, be they straight up belly dance or fusion. Bad dancing is bad dancing.

I do see both sides of the story and agree that fusion seems to be the loophole for those who can't be "bothered" to learn actual bellydancing or just want to do as they please with it. Jane made some excellent points for sure.

On the other hand we aren't in the Middle East and will seldom (well depending on where you live actually) have audiences that truly appreciate Middle Eastern music and dance. Mind you this is based on my experience, but I have found that you have to lure people over slowly, promising them cookies and holding out a lollipop LOL!

Personally I like having more options for a wider variety of audiences. I'm happy to do fusion dance and just as happy to do straight up bellydance. I love them both.

That being said I also find myself agreeing with JenC that a lot of tribal fusion looks the same to me as well. The costumes, the music, the interpretations, it is not any less guilty of the "conveyor belt affect" than Egyptian, Turkish or any other traditional style is.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

On the other hand we aren't in the Middle East and will seldom (well depending on where you live actually) have audiences that truly appreciate Middle Eastern music and dance. Mind you this is based on my experience, but I have found that you have to lure people over slowly, promising them cookies and holding out a lollipop LOL!

I know this is highly dependent upon where you live, but I dance for a lot of Arabs and Indian women here and they DO know what's what.

Plus, if you dance at the some of the big shows, your audience is almost entirely other dancers.

I never assume my audience doesn't "get it" especially because I live in a town with a big music conservatory and the population is used to that "different" music. Although I wouldn't perform a Reda-Style piece like a Milaya around here, without a program and detailed program notes.

 

[Greek Bonfire]

I know this is highly dependent upon where you live, but I dance for a lot of Arabs and Indian women here and they DO know what's what.

Plus, if you dance at the some of the big shows, your audience is almost entirely other dancers.

I never assume my audience doesn't "get it" especially because I live in a town with a big music conservatory and the population is used to that "different" music. Although I wouldn't perform a Reda-Style piece like a Milaya around here, without a program and detailed program notes.

Absolutely. Most times, a Middle Eastern crowd is not going to go for fushion. This is a known fact. If your audiences are always going to be western, then go ahead and fuse away.

 

[MissVega]

I guess it just comes down to what experiences you've had in your areas. The city I went to University in is incredibly multicultural so both my Caribbean fusion and traditional bellydance go over well and in my experience those who were middle eastern or of that background liked both.

I booked my first wedding which was a Persian/Egyptian wedding from a Caribbean fusion performance. The mother of the bride came over and said she loved the fusion and then said "You dance Egyptian as well obviously" and asked to book me for her daughters wedding.

Actually my past two private parties that were Arabic asked me to do the Caribbean fusion as well. One gentlemen paid me double to stay and teach them some Caribbean after I performed.

From what I have experienced, Middle Eastern crowds didn't mind the Caribbean Fusion at all. Maybe they just like the music lol:lol:

Again I realize this is largely area dependent I wouldn't go to another province or even city and expect it to be the same.

Now that I am back home in a small town, and the nearest city while it is growing rapidly just isn't as close to being as multicultural as where I went to University. I've found it takes people longer to warm up to the Middle Eastern music. Mind you I'm sure that will change with time and depend on each specific audience.

And yes I wish ever open to the public event had program notes, man would that makes me happy! LOL well assuming people would actually read them

 

[Shakti]

Wow this post is jumping with ideas that I have not had a chance to digest yet.

I have a geniune question what is classical bellydance? Is it just in the eye of the beholder? For instance if you claim your style as classical egyptian bellydancer do you only dance to classical music? are you a classical egyptian bellydancer if your style is "egyptian?"

I guess I am trying to form an opinion of classical being a base line of reference and fusion being an branch of bellydance. Is there a bellydance family tree?

I have studied many styles of dance. I do not hold one as more legitamate because it is older or more popular.

 

[Kashmir]

As someone who is new to this art form, I think I have and idea... it's the music.

I think that because the music is so vastly different from what most people in the U.S. are used to, they don't have a strong desire to listen to it, therefore not a strong desire to dance to it either. Well, how can one do a bd without music to fit? By changing the style of the dance.

Yes, but as the music (and culture) is an essential part of what belly dance actually is what they end up doing is not belly dance. It's modern jazz, theatre dance, hip hop, salsa, creative dance, whatever - but it isn't "belly dance". As I said, no problem with that - but don't call it "belly dance".

I often wonder if some of these people are as clueless as they appear or if they are just very good at leveraging off the belly dance name for marketing. I mean, do they are realize they aren't belly dancing? From some of the conversations we've had here it seems there are people who really believe that the label can be stuck on any dance they feel like. I mean, if I hated bagpipes but really wanted to Highland Dance I'd be laughed off the stage if I turned up with plaid and jumped about to the Rolling Stones and insisted I was doing a Highland Fling from my soul.

 

[Kashmir]

I have a geniune question what is classical bellydance? Is it just in the eye of the beholder? For instance if you claim your style as classical egyptian bellydancer do you only dance to classical music? are you a classical egyptian bellydancer if your style is "egyptian?"

A slippery phrase. If I hear "Classical Egyptian Belly Dance" - I'd expect something in style of raqs sharqi (not raqs beledi) post 1952 revolution but pre-Modern Egyptian ie before the 1980s. Dancers such as Ngawa, Fifi etc. Some people also embrace the Golden Age styles as "classical" - ie post 1926.

These dancers did both raqs sharqi to Orientale music - with the big orchestration - and some beledi and folkloric dance with strong sharqi influence.

Not sure what "classical belly dance" would be. I suspect some people just mean "belly dance" by that phrase - as in classical belly dance vs fusion belly dance - the adjective "classical" in this case is redundant.

 

[Jane]

I mean, do they are realize they aren't belly dancing?

No.

Let me offer four possible reasons why.

1. Their teachers don't know what Belly Dance is and is not.
2. Dancers are not willing to call their new dance creations by a different name.
3. Traditional belly dancers are afraid to stand up and speak out because of losing revenue and friends and the support of their community.
4. Artistic temperaments often hate limits and parameters.

 

[Belly Love]

Yes, but as the music (and culture) is an essential part of what belly dance actually is what they end up doing is not belly dance.

I see what you're saying. I personally don't typically like fusions for partly this reason, there doesn't seem to be an emphasis on the actual belly dancing...

Which brings me to MissVega, who said her Carribean fusion was requested for an Egyptian wedding...? I can see that 'cause her emphasis is on belly dance and the vibes of her dance are happy, which is typical of a ME belly dance. I said before that I also don't like a lot of fusions 'cause they are "dark" and have a sadness to them. Bd to me is supposed to be happy.

I think if fusions are done with the focus being on bd and the other dance being a parallel to it, it works better. Like a Hawaiian fusion belly dance.

 

[shiradotnet]

I like many of the folkloric Middle Eastern dances as well as modern-day raqs sharqi. So, I like belly dancing. A lot. Ditto Middle Eastern music and costume options, both folkloric and nightclub aesthetics.

For me, the problem with fusion is that it dilutes belly dance. Especially when it's done to Western music. I go to belly dance shows because I like to watch belly dance. If I wanted to see fusion, Bollywood, flamenco, modern dance, jazz, etc., I'd go to see shows in those genres performed by people who specialize in those genres. But I don't go to shows in those other genres because that's not where my interests lie. So when fusion dancers start doing all this other stuff while still calling what they do "belly dance", I feel as though there's a serious truth in advertising issue. No, it's not belly dance any more after you mix all this other stuff with it.

Now, I think it's great if people want to express themselves using whatever music, costuming, and movement vocabulary they happen to like. But I don't think they should call it "belly dance" when they do. I think they should call it "interpretive world dance" because doing so would give them total artistic freedom to do as they please.

By the way, I sometimes do fusion pieces myself. But I don't call it "belly dancing" when I do. So I'm not anti-fusion. Just anti-misleading-labeling.

 

[Shanazel]

So when fusion dancers start doing all this other stuff while still calling what they do "belly dance", I feel as though there's a serious truth in advertising issue. No, it's not belly dance any more after you mix all this other stuff with it.

I am very happy when someone succinctly expresses my feelings and all I have to do is say, "Ditto."

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

I am very happy when someone succinctly expresses my feelings and all I have to do is say, "Ditto."

Ditto as well.

 

[lilith71]

No pitchfork - but either the dancers you are exposed to aren't any good - or you just don't really like belly dance. No problem with that. Just don't try and drag a piece of theatre dance under the belly dance umbrella.

Lol, that's funny you should say this! I have watched Really Bad and Really good dancers. From worldwide famous ladies (whom I won't mention here), to middle of nowhere locals.....As I said...ahem....I love more Folkloric, Tribal Fusion, ATS, style....Cabaret/Egyptian..less.... I DO like some aspects of Bellydance... I DON"T like some aspects of Bellydance.If I was buying a ticket... to your show, I would hope to see some ATS/Fusion added in to that "Umbrella". Otherwise, I might stay home....I wish everyone would get along.

 

[lilith71]

I like many of the folkloric Middle Eastern dances as well as modern-day raqs sharqi. So, I like belly dancing. A lot. Ditto Middle Eastern music and costume options, both folkloric and nightclub aesthetics.

For me, the problem with fusion is that it dilutes belly dance. Especially when it's done to Western music. I go to belly dance shows because I like to watch belly dance. If I wanted to see fusion, Bollywood, flamenco, modern dance, jazz, etc., I'd go to see shows in those genres performed by people who specialize in those genres. But I don't go to shows in those other genres because that's not where my interests lie. So when fusion dancers start doing all this other stuff while still calling what they do "belly dance", I feel as though there's a serious truth in advertising issue. No, it's not belly dance any more after you mix all this other stuff with it.

Now, I think it's great if people want to express themselves using whatever music, costuming, and movement vocabulary they happen to like. But I don't think they should call it "belly dance" when they do. I think they should call it "interpretive world dance" because doing so would give them total artistic freedom to do as they please.

By the way, I sometimes do fusion pieces myself. But I don't call it "belly dancing" when I do. So I'm not anti-fusion. Just anti-misleading-labeling.

I understand and agree with you on this. I am beginning to think that we all at this point can't support one, without the other. Is there enough revenue brought in, with just a MIddle Eastern only show? Or for a Tribal/Fusion only show? Is this what the general consumer wants? The ticket buyers? That is the question and key to all this. Do they care, for that matter? Or are they there watching wives/friends..etc? You have to look at who's buying the tickets, paying for the workshops, etc.....Let me give you a for instance. If I was going to a Bellydance workshop/show. I would take a workshop that day from Sedonia or Maia along with Unmata or Zoey. I would buy stuff from the vendors. I would watch the evening show. If there was No Tribal/Fusion....at all... I would probably stay home and keep my money.

 

[goddessyasaman]

Well I would have to say so far no big shock on the scale weighing more to belly dancers on this forum with the dislike of fusion, it's nice to hear what everyone has to say and how they feel.

I think it may come down to The people who like or dance fusion will not agree with the people who dislike or don't dance fusion on it not being called belly dance. People will disagree on this...I'm guessing forever:lol:.

I understand both sides on this but I still like it in the middle But maybe I would be called a fusion dancer since I fuse and I'm ok with that, I'm also a fused race:lol: my family comes from the middle east/far east, from euorpe, america before it was america ect, so I'm fused all around. I wonder who has more an issuse with the fusing of dance styles the people of america or the people of the middle east? Or do they not mind the fact that there dance culture has had a influnce on americans? (I would have to ask the people of the middle east) I don't think anyone is saying that the History that we know of Middle eastern dance should be forgotten and made into something all together different and thats not even whats happening, I know I hear people say "Call it somthing else" but how would this work when most of the moves are belly dance? even if you wanted to call it something else the world would still see it as Belly dance unless there was no belly dance moves included and you made all new moves not related to belly dance.The word Fusion is in place for this reason no?

It's not unheard of that a fusion dancer can dance to middle eastern music and doing it well, Most if not All the pro fusion dancer I have seen are tranined in some style that is traditional...so are they nolonger belly dancers cause they now fuse? I don't know what to say to that. but talk is good keeps the doors open for understanding each other.

 

[Greek Bonfire]

Bd to me is supposed to be happy.

Not necessarily. Many Middle Eastern songs are sad songs about loss and love, and doing an upbeat happy dance would be contrary. Many times bellydance is performed with a melancholy mood to reflect the song.

But I see where you are going. As Shira said, when you start mixing other stuff into it, it's not really bellydance anymore.

 

[Jane]

If I was going to a Bellydance workshop/show. I would take a workshop that day from Sedonia or Maia along with Unmata or Zoey. I would buy stuff from the vendors. I would watch the evening show. If there was No Tribal/Fusion....at all... I would probably stay home and keep my money.

I feel the same way. I have actually stayed home from local and state festivals because there was only fusion offered and no belly dance. I like to support the community, but is this my community anymore? Drive how many hours and spend how much money? For what?

 

[Jane]

I don't think anyone is saying that the History that we know of Middle eastern dance should be forgotten and made into something all together different and thats not even whats happening

This is exactly what's happening.

I know I hear people say "Call it somthing else" but how would this work when most of the moves are belly dance?

Belly Dance is more than a movement vocabulary. It is a combination of a movement vocabulary and aesthetic musicality used to express Middle Eastern music.

even if you wanted to call it something else the world would still see it as Belly dance unless there was no belly dance moves included and you made all new moves not related to belly dance.The word Fusion is in place for this reason no?

I don't understand what you are trying to say.

It's not unheard of that a fusion dancer can dance to middle eastern music and doing it well, Most if not All the pro fusion dancer I have seen are tranined in some style that is traditional...so are they nolonger belly dancers cause they now fuse?

Subjective semantics. I'm a belly dancer when I do my laundry. I'm not necessarily belly dancing when I do my laundry. There is also a difference between dancing well and belly dancing well.