The like and Dislike of Fusion Belly dance

[jenc]

IMO fusion gets a raw deal because you see a whole lot of terrible stuff out there with the belly dance label slapped on it because it has a few hip moves, and if anyone tries to call people out for it there's a chorus of How Dare You Stifle My Artistic Creativity, followed by the one about purists, and evolution.

The good thing about evolution is that it has a way of taking care of stuff that doesn't work so well.

I'm interested in how specific fusion classes work as far as students picking it up and learning to make something of it themselves. I've never been to these - how does it work?

I'm doing Egyptian style so my teacher has one angle on it but there's a whole culture behind the "rules" of what movements work, music, costume etc. But if someone teaches her own fusion style are they her rules? or does everyone get to do their own thing with it? in which case how long before you dilute all the belly dance (and her fusion) out?

I see a lot of teachers out there doing what I call 'Teacher's pick and mix' I went to one teacher who claimed to teach 'Raqs Sharki, turkish and Fusion' so that students could make an informed choice - but really it was just mixed fusion of the 'mongrel' variety.

 

[goddessyasaman]

Depends whether you see it as "art" or "folk dance". Art has more (but not complete) freedom but folk dance is not a free for all.

I see it as a art form, and art is free for creation, we may not like it but it will be done.

My statement about the moves in belly dance, well it seems to be taken out of context. Belly dance is not just the music,The moves are part of it, yes the feel changes when the music changes, But should we nologer call it belly dance? , but there very well can be a mix such as a middle eastern sound mixed with another music style, it has been done.

I do my best to keep a middle eastern tone in my dances when I fuse, but when you fuse styles your music will fuse or should fuse. I think if a true fusion style comes into play we should at least give it a good look first no?

 

[lilith71]

I started bellydancing just three years ago. When I watched other dancers, I was in awe of everything, from Traditional Egyptian, to ATS and all Fusion styles. Now, I am slightly more choosey.....I'm gonna throw this out there, and probably get pitchforked, but I really LOVE Fusion styles the most! I love some Gothic and Traditonal ATS equally as much. I can't help it when the hairs on the back of my neck raise when I see a beautiful Tribal or Fusion piece performed. Sometimes I even get emotional and wish I could dance like that person. I rarely, if ever feel that way with Cabaret or Egyptian anymore. I hate the costumes and get tired of the same "type" of music, over and over. I know, I know... it is blasphemy to speak that way here. I do enjoy the more Folkloric pieces and love to watch those, but those seem to be fewer and farther between in performances around my area. Most of my friends and fellow dancers feel this way as well. My opinion, is that everyone has one. I understand people's reasoning for pushing learning traditional Middle Eastern music, style, and language until you get it right. Unfortunately, I'm 40 years old, with 4 kids a husband and business. I haven't the time or resources to study "one" art form at a time. I take classes from a traditional teacher (rural area), take online classes with Ansuya now, and study Tribal fusion on dvd's and with friends. I never expect to be the next greatest thing, but I do perform now and then and get Oooo"d and Awwwed occasionally. My motto is, if you don't like it, go get a sandwich!

 

[Greek Bonfire]

Yes, yes, yes, LadyLoba! Before switching to belly dance, I was a flamenco performer. I get really annoyed when I see a "flamenco fusion" piece by a dancer who clearly knows nothing about flamenco. To me, that's being disrespectful to another dance form.

I'm sure if I decided to choreograph an "ATS fusion" piece and just picked moves I can remember from seeing Devi Mamak perform, Tribal dancers would have something to say - but it's OK if they massacre my dance genre!

Don't get me wrong, they don't have to be technically perfect by any means - but when they use music from Latin America instead of Spain, and think it's enough to arch their back a couple of times, it gets my goat...

OK I'll get off my hobby horse now.

No, stay on it. Flamenco has got to be one of the most intricate sophisticated dances to learn. It takes YEARS. In fact, I tried to pick up a few steps from an instructional video and got completely lost. It is a dance that definitely requires classroom instruction - for many years.

 

[goddessyasaman]

I started bellydancing just three years ago. When I watched other dancers, I was in awe of everything, from Traditional Egyptian, to ATS and all Fusion styles. Now, I am slightly more choosey.....I'm gonna throw this out there, and probably get pitchforked, but I really LOVE Fusion styles the most! I love some Gothic and Traditonal ATS equally as much. I can't help it when the hairs on the back of my neck raise when I see a beautiful Tribal or Fusion piece performed. Sometimes I even get emotional and wish I could dance like that person. I rarely, if ever feel that way with Cabaret or Egyptian anymore. I hate the costumes and get tired of the same "type" of music, over and over. I know, I know... it is blasphemy to speak that way here. I do enjoy the more Folkloric pieces and love to watch those, but those seem to be fewer and farther between in performances around my area. Most of my friends and fellow dancers feel this way as well. My opinion, is that everyone has one. I understand people's reasoning for pushing learning traditional Middle Eastern music, style, and language until you get it right. Unfortunately, I'm 40 years old, with 4 kids a husband and business. I haven't the time or resources to study "one" art form at a time. I take classes from a traditional teacher (rural area), take online classes with Ansuya now, and study Tribal fusion on dvd's and with friends. I never expect to be the next greatest thing, but I do perform now and then and get Oooo"d and Awwwed occasionally. My motto is, if you don't like it, go get a sandwich!

No you can like whatever you like, it's true that the style must call to you in some way and there is nothing wrong with your pick, I have been in the belly dancing world for 14 years, the first style I learned was Turkish Cab, then i studied Egyptian, then Indian and so on, after the years went by I studied ATS and the Tribal fusion and ofcourse Goth belly dance, I love many styles so these days I dance mostly Fusion style though I have started fusing my own style with Native american culture and dance. I'm with you on the costumes I never much liked the egyptian style costumes but thats just my taste.

One of my Fav dancers is Zoe jakes here is a link if you have not seen her, you will love her

YouTube - Zoe Jakes - Tribal Fusion Belly Dance

 

[lilith71]

Ahhhh...Zoey!!!!! Love her! I get to see her in a few weeks w/ a Beats Antique show! Yay!!!!!

 

[goddessyasaman]

Ahhhh...Zoey!!!!! Love her! I get to see her in a few weeks w/ a Beats Antique show! Yay!!!!!

I'm so jealous but happy for you at the same time:lol:

I sent you a friend request, so let me know how it was once you see it so I can be even more jealous :lol:

 

[goddessyasaman]

Ahhhh...Zoey!!!!! Love her! I get to see her in a few weeks w/ a Beats Antique show! Yay!!!!!

Oh my God!! I just found out that she W/ beats Antique will be in my state in april :dance: yeah i'm so happy now I get to see Zoe live YAY!

 

[Amulya]

We had Beats Antique in Australia a couple of weeks ago, but unfortunately no Zoe or anyone else from America

 

[Afrit]

I'm gonna throw this out there, and probably get pitchforked, but I really LOVE Fusion styles the most! I love some Gothic and Traditonal ATS equally as much. I can't help it when the hairs on the back of my neck raise when I see a beautiful Tribal or Fusion piece performed. Sometimes I even get emotional and wish I could dance like that person. I rarely, if ever feel that way with Cabaret or Egyptian anymore.

No pitchfork - but either the dancers you are exposed to aren't any good - or you just don't really like belly dance. No problem with that. Just don't try and drag a piece of theatre dance under the belly dance umbrella.

 

[jenc]

I personally feel that a lot of tribal looks the same and hate the music which also feels samey, but I love the variety of Egyptian

 

[Aniseteph]

No pitchfork - but either the dancers you are exposed to aren't any good - or you just don't really like belly dance. No problem with that. Just don't try and drag a piece of theatre dance under the belly dance umbrella.

Virtual rep.

 

[goddessyasaman]

No pitchfork - but either the dancers you are exposed to aren't any good - or you just don't really like belly dance. No problem with that. Just don't try and drag a piece of theatre dance under the belly dance umbrella.

I don't know Afrit but I think this is a bit harsh, everyone likes what they like who are any of us to say such a thing. Your like is just different can't you just leave it at that?

 

[gisela]

Well, Afrit is just saying that you are free to like whatever you want, just be clear on the labelling. That's how I interpret it. Please correct me of I am wrong, Afrit.

And Goddessyasaman, you started a thread about the likes and dislikes of fusion, so it's inevitable that some people are going to express dislikes and state their reasons. They are not going to just leave it at that

 

[goddessyasaman]

Well, Afrit is just saying that you are free to like whatever you want, just be clear on the labelling. That's how I interpret it. Please correct me of I am wrong, Afrit.

And Goddessyasaman, you started a thread about the likes and dislikes of fusion, so it's inevitable that some people are going to express dislikes and state their reasons. They are not going to just leave it at that

yes the like and dis-like of fusion. I don't think saying "but either the dancers you are exposed to aren't any good - or you just don't really like belly dance" I think is unfair to say, everyone has different taste, making a statement that you dislike something is different then that I think. As far as being clear on the labelling how would one do that if it is unclear and it is heard as such:think:

 

[Jane]

I'm tired of fusion. In my area I can go to a belly dance show and see maybe three straight belly dance or folkloric pieces out of about thirty-five. If you don't like belly dance music and Middle Eastern culture, why pick belly dance to begin with? It may be good dance, but that doesn't make it belly dance.

This past year, I co-hosted a haflah. I put in an album by Cairo Orchestra, or somebody similar IDR, for everyone to free dance to. The Tribal Fusion dancers stopped dancing. I invited them to get back up and dance. They wouldn't because, "I don't know what kind of music that is". "Umm...it's belly dance music", I said. "I can't dance to that", they replied. This is a very, very bad thing.

I love belly dance just the way it is. Why oh why is there a need to change a cultural art form from the Middle East to include more Western elements? They do it; but it's also their dance. When we do it, *why* do we do it? Dumb it down for ourselves or our audiences? Or even worse, because it's not good enough unless it has European elements added to it? That's scarily close to racism.

American Oriental developed naturally from our immigrant communities. It was never an artificial construct. I like American Oriental and it's as close to fusion as I get. Thoughtful, educated and well done fusion, in by neck of the woods, is as rare as snake suspenders. Generally it's just a hot mess.

Belly dance is a cultural art from the Middle East that continues to evolve there. It is not a catch-all term for creative movement. If you don't want to use belly dance music and belly dance movement and technique, and can't connect with Middle Eastern musicality, what is the point? There are plenty of other dance forms out there to explore without impinging on an existing ethnic art.

 

[Belly Love]

I love belly dance just the way it is. Why oh why is there a need to change a cultural art form from the Middle East to include more Western elements?

As someone who is new to this art form, I think I have and idea... it's the music.

I think that because the music is so vastly different from what most people in the U.S. are used to, they don't have a strong desire to listen to it, therefore not a strong desire to dance to it either. Well, how can one do a bd without music to fit? By changing the style of the dance.

People want to incorporate their personal taste in clothes & music but still bd. ME music is an aquired taste for Westerners. I will admit, when I first started watching bd, I could not stand the music- none of it. Now, I can't get it out of my head when I'm sweeping! And I like it! Well, some of it

 

[Yame]

Well put, Jane! I just rep'd you for that.

I can totally relate...

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

I'm tired of fusion. In my area I can go to a belly dance show and see maybe three straight belly dance or folkloric pieces out of about thirty-five. If you don't like belly dance music and Middle Eastern culture, why pick belly dance to begin with? It may be good dance, but that doesn't make it belly dance.

This past year, I co-hosted a haflah. I put in an album by Cairo Orchestra, or somebody similar IDR, for everyone to free dance to. The Tribal Fusion dancers stopped dancing. I invited them to get back up and dance. They wouldn't because, "I don't know what kind of music that is". "Umm...it's belly dance music", I said. "I can't dance to that", they replied. This is a very, very bad thing.

I love belly dance just the way it is. Why oh why is there a need to change a cultural art form from the Middle East to include more Western elements? They do it; but it's also their dance. When we do it, *why* do we do it? Dumb it down for ourselves or our audiences? Or even worse, because it's not good enough unless it has European elements added to it? That's scarily close to racism.

American Oriental developed naturally from our immigrant communities. It was never an artificial construct. I like American Oriental and it's as close to fusion as I get. Thoughtful, educated and well done fusion, in by neck of the woods, is as rare as snake suspenders. Generally it's just a hot mess.

Belly dance is a cultural art from the Middle East that continues to evolve there. It is not a catch-all term for creative movement. If you don't want to use belly dance music and belly dance movement and technique, and can't connect with Middle Eastern musicality, what is the point? There are plenty of other dance forms out there to explore without impinging on an existing ethnic art.

Bowing to your wisdom, since I can't rep you again.

Thank you thank you thank you for that.

I'm sure Sashi is a wonderful person, but there is nothing in any of her performances posted here that would make me consider her a bellydancer or even a belly dance fusion dancer.

Undulations and hip drops DO NOT MAKE IT BELLY DANCE!!!

 

[RayaDancer]

Belly dance is a cultural art from the Middle East that continues to evolve there. It is not a catch-all term for creative movement. If you don't want to use belly dance music and belly dance movement and technique, and can't connect with Middle Eastern musicality, what is the point? There are plenty of other dance forms out there to explore without impinging on an existing ethnic art.

AMEN!!!
I have to say, I am from NYC, the world capital for artistic license. :lol:
On occasion, ive seen fusion thats enjoyable and well done, so i cant knock it entirely.
but for the most part i agree with what jane said. what we practice is an ethnic art form, and when you fuse it, you lose the value of it being true to its roots.