Caroline_afifi
New member
What do we want from workshops?
What do you get the most from and what do you tend to avoid?
What do you get the most from and what do you tend to avoid?
what do we want from workshops?
- Thread starter Caroline_afifi
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Aniseteph
New member
In no particular order or completeness... 
Teachers I have seen perform and liked, or heard good things of.
More technique, less "learn a choreography to perform" or combinations. Can't remember them to save my life, get left behind unless it is repeated about a squillion times (thank you Khaled :clap
Taster sessions for styles/props I've not had much to do with.
burlesque/fusion. A bit of fun is fine, but if it pushes out straight belly dance at an event, hmmm... and I feel that if I do a flamenco- or gypsy- or whatever fusion class I'm never going to manage more than a really lame attempt at the other half of the fusion.
Teacher on stage/mic'd up if it's a big workshop. If it's cheap I don't mind huge classes and little personal attention, as long as there is space to move and I can see/hear the teacher.
I object to paying megabucks for a star teacher just to be in a huge crowd; not being able to see is the final straw.
Teachers I have seen perform and liked, or heard good things of. More technique, less "learn a choreography to perform" or combinations. Can't remember them to save my life, get left behind unless it is repeated about a squillion times (thank you Khaled :clap Taster sessions for styles/props I've not had much to do with. burlesque/fusion. A bit of fun is fine, but if it pushes out straight belly dance at an event, hmmm... and I feel that if I do a flamenco- or gypsy- or whatever fusion class I'm never going to manage more than a really lame attempt at the other half of the fusion. Teacher on stage/mic'd up if it's a big workshop. If it's cheap I don't mind huge classes and little personal attention, as long as there is space to move and I can see/hear the teacher. I object to paying megabucks for a star teacher just to be in a huge crowd; not being able to see is the final straw.
Aisha Azar
New member
Workshops
Dear Caroline,
When I attend as a student I want:
* A class that is not too big
* An instructor who knows her material
* An instructor who knows how to teach. (For natives who are primarily entertainers, this has a different connotation than it does for actual professional instructors.)
* To be treated as an individual
I tend to avoid:
* Classes with way too many people
* Instruction venues without mirrors because I am a very visual learner
* Instructors/performers who are all about themselves to the detriment of the dance.
As an instructor I want:
* Limited class participation ( I usually can have up to 30 people in the class and still give them what they need. More than that and I feel that my teaching skill level is affected.)
* A room with mirrors so that students can see themselves and I can see them both as a group and as individuals.
* If possible, a 15 minute break in the middle of a workshop, in order to show video clips of natives in action, using the concepts we are working with, and to discuss the dance a bit.
* The ability to be flexible and gear the class toward the needs of the group.
I tend to avoid
* Crowding a classroom to the point where people begin to feel like a herd of sheep.
* Cold rooms.
* Throwing too much info at the students for the time allotted.
* Teaching choreographies in workshop situations.
Regards,
A'isha
Dear Caroline,
When I attend as a student I want:
* A class that is not too big
* An instructor who knows her material
* An instructor who knows how to teach. (For natives who are primarily entertainers, this has a different connotation than it does for actual professional instructors.)
* To be treated as an individual
I tend to avoid:
* Classes with way too many people
* Instruction venues without mirrors because I am a very visual learner
* Instructors/performers who are all about themselves to the detriment of the dance.
As an instructor I want:
* Limited class participation ( I usually can have up to 30 people in the class and still give them what they need. More than that and I feel that my teaching skill level is affected.)
* A room with mirrors so that students can see themselves and I can see them both as a group and as individuals.
* If possible, a 15 minute break in the middle of a workshop, in order to show video clips of natives in action, using the concepts we are working with, and to discuss the dance a bit.
* The ability to be flexible and gear the class toward the needs of the group.
I tend to avoid
* Crowding a classroom to the point where people begin to feel like a herd of sheep.
* Cold rooms.
* Throwing too much info at the students for the time allotted.
* Teaching choreographies in workshop situations.
Regards,
A'isha
shiradotnet
Well-known member
I tend to avoid workshops that teach choreographies. I'll make an exception if the choreography is in a dance style I'm feeling motivated to learn (such as a folkloric style that I previously have little to no prior experience with), since the choreo can help me remember the dance style. But if it's "yet another Oriental choreography" there are very few instructors that I would feel motivated to learn one from. Raqia Hassan, yes. Flavor-of-the-month U.S. dancer - no.
If I do attend a choreography workshop, I like it better if it includes not only the choreo, but some instruction in technique. I especially like ones in which the instructor includes a liberal dose of, "In this place, I decided to use this move because...."
I like technique workshops. Even if I know the technique being taught, I find it interesting to see how other teachers approach teaching it.
I love folkloric workshops that teach not only movement but also include a lecture component about the ethnology. For that reason, I really like Morocco's folkloric technique workshops.
If I do attend a choreography workshop, I like it better if it includes not only the choreo, but some instruction in technique. I especially like ones in which the instructor includes a liberal dose of, "In this place, I decided to use this move because...."
I like technique workshops. Even if I know the technique being taught, I find it interesting to see how other teachers approach teaching it.
I love folkloric workshops that teach not only movement but also include a lecture component about the ethnology. For that reason, I really like Morocco's folkloric technique workshops.
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lizaj
New member
A challenge but not a drill session
To pick up at least one new thing..that doesn't have to be a move . I just want a penny to drop.
probably not a choreography but that's me. I take weeks to get to grips as my troupe mates will know. However a miracle worker called Morocco actually taught me one in one 2 hour workshop. That has never happened again
I do like to go to someone new but equally am happy to revisit someone I have found a great communicator eg. I eagerly await workshops with Khaled and Maria at JoY.
I actually do not want to do anything new, out side of the box. But I would like to expand my expertise of North African folk dance.
To pick up at least one new thing..that doesn't have to be a move . I just want a penny to drop.
probably not a choreography but that's me. I take weeks to get to grips as my troupe mates will know. However a miracle worker called Morocco actually taught me one in one 2 hour workshop. That has never happened again
I do like to go to someone new but equally am happy to revisit someone I have found a great communicator eg. I eagerly await workshops with Khaled and Maria at JoY.
I actually do not want to do anything new, out side of the box. But I would like to expand my expertise of North African folk dance.
shiradotnet
Well-known member
Picking up on a comment Liz made...
If I find a teacher whose teaching style I like, I'll happily go to that person again and again.
I don't understand people who say, "Oh, is that person coming to town AGAIN? I loved her workshop 5 years ago and still use what I learned there, but I'd rather try someone new to me."
If I find a teacher whose teaching style I like, I'll happily go to that person again and again.
I don't understand people who say, "Oh, is that person coming to town AGAIN? I loved her workshop 5 years ago and still use what I learned there, but I'd rather try someone new to me."
Aisha Azar
New member
Repeats
Dear Shira,
I agree whole heartedly. I have had two workshop instructors that I followed all over the place for years, and would study with them again any day. (One is actually retired now.)
I think, also as you get to be a dancer who has been on the scene forever, and also teach, you tend to know more what you want out of a class, and when you find someone who does that, you stick with them. A good teacher has something that you can pick up every time, is what I have found.
Regards,
A'isha
Dear Shira,
I agree whole heartedly. I have had two workshop instructors that I followed all over the place for years, and would study with them again any day. (One is actually retired now.)
I think, also as you get to be a dancer who has been on the scene forever, and also teach, you tend to know more what you want out of a class, and when you find someone who does that, you stick with them. A good teacher has something that you can pick up every time, is what I have found.
Regards,
A'isha
Salome
Administrator
Generally I avoid: choreography workshop. Not to say I haven't or couldn't pick something up but I'm never going to use someone else's choreography. Picking a few things that speak to me, I can do just by watching the dancer perform... I don't usually attend Egyptian or Tribal focused workshops, not my genre. I don't usually take from teachers who I've not seen perform in person or online/video.
What I want to get: As a student I want a workshop to get me out of my comfort zone. Learning new material is great or even showing me a different way to approach material I already know. Anything that adds to my academic knowledge. Spending time on a topic in detail that's of interest. What I like to walk away with is the why and how, if I get that then it can be developed later in my own time, since that usually doesn't happen in a 2 hour period.
Aisha Azar
New member
Dance etc.
Dear Salome,
The one place I would disagree with you here is that you generally avoid
Egyptian workshops. I have had many American Oriental dancers tell me that in studying Egyptian, (or other authentic ethnic belly dance technique), that it brought a richness to their American style that they felt enhanced their dance very much. I even have Tribal dancers who come to study with me and they say it makes them better dancers in their own style.
Regards,
A'isha
Dear Salome,
The one place I would disagree with you here is that you generally avoid
Egyptian workshops. I have had many American Oriental dancers tell me that in studying Egyptian, (or other authentic ethnic belly dance technique), that it brought a richness to their American style that they felt enhanced their dance very much. I even have Tribal dancers who come to study with me and they say it makes them better dancers in their own style.
Regards,
A'isha
Salome
Administrator
I am very interested in Turkish Oryantal and of the ethnic styles that is my first choice. I have taken Egyptian focused workshops over the years, am taking one next month actually. That is why I said I generally avoid, not abstain completely
But yeah, if the choice is between Turkish, American or Egyptian - I'd spend my money and time in that order.
Aisha Azar
New member
Dance, etc.
Dear Salome,
I also am very attracted to Turkish dance currently. I think I will never get good enough at it in the time left to me, but when a teacher like Jennet, for example, comes along, I take a class with her. Funny, she learned a lot of her Egyptian stuff from me and now I seek her out for Turkish!! I think she is the best we Americans have in both Rom and Turkish belly dance.
Regards,
A'isha
I am very interested in Turkish Oryantal and of the ethnic styles that is my first choice. I have taken Egyptian focused workshops over the years, am taking one next month actually. That is why I said I generally avoid, not abstain completely
Dear Salome,
I also am very attracted to Turkish dance currently. I think I will never get good enough at it in the time left to me, but when a teacher like Jennet, for example, comes along, I take a class with her. Funny, she learned a lot of her Egyptian stuff from me and now I seek her out for Turkish!! I think she is the best we Americans have in both Rom and Turkish belly dance.
Regards,
A'isha
Aisha Azar
New member
Choreography
Dear Aniseteph,
Years ago I taught a choreography to a group of women, to Tamra Henna. They professed to love it and felt they learned it in the time allotted to learning it. I occasionally get an email asking me if one of those students can use it for this or that purpose, to pass on through teaching or perform in a show.
In spite of this very positive experience with teaching choreography in a workshop situation, I still prefer to both teach and learn technique. As a workshop instructor, most of the time I get classes of dancers who come up and say what a relief it is to not have to try to learn a whole dance in a very short period of time. Also, I think it is better because we do not have an agenda to shove a certain amount of information down the students' throats and can instead concentrate more on what THEY need and want, as opposed to having to stick to our agendas like glue. It is then about the needs of the students, which should be what workshops are all about!
My dance company, on the other hand, is quite used to having to learn
about 4-6 new choreographies a year. Some are easy and some are difficult, but they are all bound to be forgotten by me before we ever hit the stage!!
Regards,
A'isha
Is there ANYONE here who likes learn-a-choreography workshops?!
Dear Aniseteph,
Years ago I taught a choreography to a group of women, to Tamra Henna. They professed to love it and felt they learned it in the time allotted to learning it. I occasionally get an email asking me if one of those students can use it for this or that purpose, to pass on through teaching or perform in a show.
In spite of this very positive experience with teaching choreography in a workshop situation, I still prefer to both teach and learn technique. As a workshop instructor, most of the time I get classes of dancers who come up and say what a relief it is to not have to try to learn a whole dance in a very short period of time. Also, I think it is better because we do not have an agenda to shove a certain amount of information down the students' throats and can instead concentrate more on what THEY need and want, as opposed to having to stick to our agendas like glue. It is then about the needs of the students, which should be what workshops are all about!
My dance company, on the other hand, is quite used to having to learn
about 4-6 new choreographies a year. Some are easy and some are difficult, but they are all bound to be forgotten by me before we ever hit the stage!!
Regards,
A'isha
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Kashmir
New member
I want a good dancer with experience who can teach.
I want to expand my understanding of the dance - so new styles, new approaches, ways of doing xyz.
I want under 70 people in the class - even if big screens or stages are provided.
If the teacher is going to talk s/he needs to be able to be heard.
Teacher should be willing and able to answer relevant questions.
I would like feedback although it is not essential and I'm used to not getting any (or anyone else in most workshops I've been to for the last 15 years)
I don't want choreography only workshops - although I'm happy to attend workshops where choreography is used to teach a style or aspects of musical interpretation.
Outi
New member
As student and teacher I like to have mix of workshops with technique, choregraphy and something between. Usually now I only have private classes for some projects or music, so I haven't been on workshop for a few years now.
As teacher I like to teach technique. But the problem is how the studets learn to dance only doing technique? Especially if the teacher is there only for very short period of time, I think it's best to have different kinds of workshops. The only way to teach or let the students to understand how the teacher uses and hears music is through choreography or doing parts of one song repeatedly with a preorganized structure and order. Especially after dancing in Egypt I want to teach the feeling and how to use and listen the music. It's so funny when students ask me question about weight or direction or foot and my answer to them is "What ever you like, it doesn't matter". Because in the end it really doesn't. The feeling and being in the momet and the uniqueness of the moment is so much more important. As a student I never understood these kind of answers.
I agree many of your points. When I have class I want to learn something - anything new. I want to be able to hear what teacher is saying, see what he/she is doing, ask questions. I want to hear as much of the background or his/her feeling or ides of the particular music/style.
As a teacher I'll do my best to give all of that to my students.
As teacher I like to teach technique. But the problem is how the studets learn to dance only doing technique? Especially if the teacher is there only for very short period of time, I think it's best to have different kinds of workshops. The only way to teach or let the students to understand how the teacher uses and hears music is through choreography or doing parts of one song repeatedly with a preorganized structure and order. Especially after dancing in Egypt I want to teach the feeling and how to use and listen the music. It's so funny when students ask me question about weight or direction or foot and my answer to them is "What ever you like, it doesn't matter". Because in the end it really doesn't. The feeling and being in the momet and the uniqueness of the moment is so much more important. As a student I never understood these kind of answers.
I agree many of your points. When I have class I want to learn something - anything new. I want to be able to hear what teacher is saying, see what he/she is doing, ask questions. I want to hear as much of the background or his/her feeling or ides of the particular music/style.
As a teacher I'll do my best to give all of that to my students.
Safran
New member
The main thing - I want to leave a workshop with the feeling that I
ve actually gained something. And it isn't just a nice experience or fun time, but really something - a new piece of knowledge, a new way to break down a movement, a new movement or combo, a new choreography.
I agree with Shira - choreo workshops can actually give you more than just another choreo. Sometimes the background of the style is explained. Sometimes you will learn about specific movements. Sometimes you will understand the connection to the music etc.
I have a great respect for instructors who come to the class and are actually prepared. And who teach what has been previously advertised by them. However, every now and then you can also find value in the made-up-on-the-spot workshops.
As for frequenting the workshops of the same instructor more than once, even if it is the same topic... I completely see the point there. Because you can never get the maximum out of the workshop in those mere 3 hours. so, if it is a good instuctor, one workshop will probably offer you the joy of discovery for several times.
Oh, and of course - the physical conditions are very important - not too cold, not too stuffy, not too crowded, that you can actually hear and see the instructor and hear the music etc.
ve actually gained something. And it isn't just a nice experience or fun time, but really something - a new piece of knowledge, a new way to break down a movement, a new movement or combo, a new choreography.
I agree with Shira - choreo workshops can actually give you more than just another choreo. Sometimes the background of the style is explained. Sometimes you will learn about specific movements. Sometimes you will understand the connection to the music etc.
I have a great respect for instructors who come to the class and are actually prepared. And who teach what has been previously advertised by them. However, every now and then you can also find value in the made-up-on-the-spot workshops.
As for frequenting the workshops of the same instructor more than once, even if it is the same topic... I completely see the point there. Because you can never get the maximum out of the workshop in those mere 3 hours. so, if it is a good instuctor, one workshop will probably offer you the joy of discovery for several times.
Oh, and of course - the physical conditions are very important - not too cold, not too stuffy, not too crowded, that you can actually hear and see the instructor and hear the music etc.
Caroline_afifi
New member
Is there ANYONE here who likes learn-a-choreography workshops?!
I was thinking the same myself!!
Who ever uses someone else choregraphy? I have never...
I have wasted my time and money galloping through choreography workshops. I hate anything over two hours and I dont care who it is.
If there is a lunch break in between then OK, I can go back and do another two.
I have been made to teach 3 hour workshops at some festivals and I see the students literally fading away in the last hour.
2 1/2 is Ok if you include warm up and cool down.
Sometimes the workshops are long because people feel students may not travel 2/3 hours to attend a 3 hour workshop. in that case perhaps it should be made a full day with breaks and lunch break?
Caroline_afifi
New member
Hi Outi,
I think it depends what level they are at.
I do agree that students in the beginning need to see a combination of movement and technique blended into a pattern of dance. Some short Choreographies are also fun to do and quite often groups use them to perform at haflahs.
I think it only becomes a problem when teachers only have choregraphies to teach and pass on like somesort of bloodline.
To everyone,
A person cannot always learn individual expression and feeling dancing to music loved by someone else with sequesnces which scream their movement and style.
Back to Imitating.. this is how that persons style is embodied into another persons brain and becomes their response.
Does that sound like Gobbeldy gook?
We can wwatch dancers live and on DVD to see how structures are formed and executed.
Dont get me wrong, I am not against choreography per se and I have taught quite a few myself, I just think they are often over done at workshop level and the product becomes the focus.