Don't know what to do next in this process...

[ana_bat]

Recently I've realized that I no longer feel passionate about ATS which was what I thought to be a true calling. I'm looking for a change, but I find myself unsure how to proceed next. Basically I came to this realization that after 4 years I knew nothing about belly dance at all. I'm upset that I don't understand the cultural significance of several things, I'm upset that I don't know the different style of music from the middle east and appropriate zill patterns when applicable, gosh I'm just upset at how culturally devoid this belly dance experience has felt for me! I'm tired of making costumes that bare what feels like little cultural significance and emulating this blend of cultures yet understanding none. I don't see how all these cultures that are fused together in dance, make any sense. I feel self conscious and wrong about performing and participating in ATS. I don't mean to offend anyone out there who dances ATS/ITS or Tribal fusion, I'm just referring to my own experience not to the dance form as a whole.

I want to really learn belly dance, I want to learn about the many cultures of the middle east but I don't know how to go about this. I'm not sure if I want to quit or if I want to start the search for a new teacher and start all over again. I just feel lost, like I'm having an identity crisis of sorts :shok:. Have any of you gone through something like this before? I would appreciate any advice or perspectives.

 

[Darshiva]

Hold on to your old tribal gear & start looking for classes in other bellydance styles.

Talk to your teacher about your desire to know more about the dances tribal springs from and ask for advice.

I think everyone has itchy feet with regards to their dance style at some point. If you think of it as cross-training rather than deserting your origins, you'll come at it from the right perspective. It's fine to take a hiatus from tribal while you try out new things, anyone who tells you otherwise has other motives in mind.

 

[Shanazel]

You clearly listed the things you wish you'd learned in the last four years. Next step: start doing research on those things. There are lots of links throughout OD to get you started. Shira.net is a great place to go for information.

If you don't want to do tribal any more, find a teacher who teaches a traditional style.

Don't disparage what you've been doing for four years- that does both you and the style an injustice. Dance training is dance training and rarely goes to waste when you move on to something different.

ATS is a cultural phenomenon- an American cultural phenomenon that has been embraced by women all over the globe. It nurtures feelings of sisterhood and solidarity and strength. The people who do it adopt costuming that fits their style of dance and their own tribe/troupe. Just because we can definitely pinpoint the beginnings of this style doesn't make it culturally insignificant.

And no, I am not a tribal gal, but I see the grounding and joy it brings to its adherents. If we go back far enough, all of us can trace descent from tribes of some sort. I see ATS as a celebration and resurrection of tribal cohesiveness, memories of which still exist in the Collective Unconscience.

 

[ana_bat]

Thank you for your input Darshiva and Shanazel

You raised some excellent points that I managed to miss in my own thinking. I think I'm just going to hit the pause button rather than quit all together and start researching and cross training down the line. I really appreciated the input!

 

[Kashmir]

Research who in your local community can teach these things and consider joining their classes or doing private lessons. Look out for workshops by well educated, experienced teachers (they may not look sexy - but they may have heaps to teach). There are also festivals which have cultural components.

DVDs are harder - because even if the teacher knows what they are on about they are limited in what they can transmit on a DVD - but worse DVDs are very expensive to produce and rely on volume to recoup the costs - so often the least useful things are the ones that make a splash. That said, Ranya Renee's DVDs have some useful information.

 

[BigJim]

I think I know where you are coming from.... you've just had your eyes opened to how huge and vast this concept of belly dance really is... that you've worked hard for 4 years and the revelation that you know virtually nothing is a real jolt.... but look at this from the flip side... you can work at it for a lifetime and still find motivation, challenge and satisfaction every time you put on the dance togs... you can find something new to learn and conquer every day... what's not great about this... why would you ever dream of quitting...

If you think I haven't felt like you are feeling now you are wrong.... I just did a performance at a show where I felt I did O.K....But I knew that it just didn't click... and I thought "Geez... after all the work I did for this I'm actually regressing... not gettting ahead'... But you have to give your head a shake and say I know where I need to improve so let's get at it....

Keep practicing and keep having fun.... this ride lasts a lifetime...

 

[Farasha Hanem]

Ana, I also want to encourage you not to quit. You can still learn ATS and traditional bellydance. And no, you're not the only one here who has had doubts about what they're doing/learning, and certainly not the first to question what you have been doing.

This forum and Shira.net are indeed wonderful sources for bellydance research, I've certainly learned a lot in my short time here. We have many super people here who are a wealth of BD knowledge, so when you have questions, you've come to the right place. There are lots of threads on traditional styles, BD history, music, etc. Check out the stickies in each subforum, they're also full of useful information!

Every now and then, my situation drives me a little nuts. The dance company that I'm a student of (at? of? at? oO;; ) is what I consider to be very much American Oriental, with only a very little exposure to more traditional stuff. My teacher (whom I do love dearly, BTW) uses some traditional music (or modernized versions of the classics), but a lot of the music she uses is either Celtic, Americanized pseudo-ME music, or Shakira. And Christina. -_- Absolutely no offense to either artist, but I always dread when my teacher does "freestyle time," because 99 times out of 100, it's going to be either Shakira or Christina. There have been days when I've thought, "If I have to dance ONE MORE FREAKIN' TIME to either "Hips Don't Lie" or "Lady Marmalade," I'm goinjg to SCREAM so loud, my BD friends all over the world will hear me!!!" :wall::doh: So yeah, I do get where you're coming from. You're hungry to learn what makes bellydance bellydance. Nothing else will satisfy you. So find some teachers in your area who (hopefully) teach more traditional styles, and if there are none, use instructional DVD's as a last resort. Watch for YouTube recommendations here if you need some guidance (there's a lot of garbage on YT as well as gems). You're already off to a great start by being here---remember, you're a part of OUR family! *hugs!*

 

[Shanazel]

very much American Oriental, with only a very little exposure to more traditional stuff. My teacher (whom I do love dearly, BTW) uses some traditional music (or modernized versions of the classics), but a lot of the music she uses is either Celtic, Americanized pseudo-ME music, or Shakira. And Christina.

-

:naghty:No American Oriental dancer would be caught dead using non-ME music while calling herself an American Oriental dancer. :naghty:

As soon as Shakira or Silly Wizard enter the room, American Oriental leaves. Americanized ME music is traditional for AmOri, starting with the likes of George Abdo and Eddie the Shiek. The style and the music grew uo together. The longer I've danced, the more I prefer ME music without the Americanization, but I do love some of the American/ME hybrids.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

:s

-

:naghty:No American Oriental dancer would be caught dead using non-ME music while calling herself an American Oriental dancer. :naghty:

As soon as Shakira or Silly Wizard enter the room, American Oriental leaves. Americanized ME music is traditional for AmOri, starting with the likes of George Abdo and Eddie the Shiek. The style and the music grew uo together. The longer I've danced, the more I prefer ME music without the Americanization, but I do love some of the American/ME hybrids.

Well, actually, my teacher has never really stated what she teaches, just "bellydance." She does tell us (when we're not dancing cabaret) that we're supposed to be "wild crazy freespirited...(ack)...gypsies."

Yeah, I know, right??? :doh: :wall: rotest:

Geez, Ana, I feel your pain more than I thought! ack, ack, ack...

 

[Pleasant dancer]

Recently I've realized that I no longer feel passionate about ATS which was what I thought to be a true calling. I'm looking for a change, but I find myself unsure how to proceed next. Basically I came to this realization that after 4 years I knew nothing about belly dance at all. I'm upset that I don't understand the cultural significance of several things, I'm upset that I don't know the different style of music from the middle east and appropriate zill patterns when applicable, gosh I'm just upset at how culturally devoid this belly dance experience has felt for me! I'm tired of making costumes that bare what feels like little cultural significance and emulating this blend of cultures yet understanding none. I don't see how all these cultures that are fused together in dance, make any sense. I feel self conscious and wrong about performing and participating in ATS. I don't mean to offend anyone out there who dances ATS/ITS or Tribal fusion, I'm just referring to my own experience not to the dance form as a whole.

I want to really learn belly dance, I want to learn about the many cultures of the middle east but I don't know how to go about this. I'm not sure if I want to quit or if I want to start the search for a new teacher and start all over again. I just feel lost, like I'm having an identity crisis of sorts :shok:. Have any of you gone through something like this before? I would appreciate any advice or perspectives.

Well - you could have gone to an Oriental teacher for 4 years and still learned very little about cultural significance, music, etc, so don't be too hard on yourself!

Very simply, as others have said, you will just have to learn about a different form of belly dancing. Find yourself a good Oriental teacher, do lots of research yourself (hey - you've got this Forum so you are heads up!) Approach it as a challenge, but don't throw your Tribal costumes/knowledge/skills out of the window just yet. It could be quite exciting and you might even end up respecting and loving all the different forms even more, because you will know where it all comes from and how it's been shaped.

Good luck in your new journey ......

 

[ana_bat]

Wow! Thank you for all the support ladies! It means a lot as I don't have anyone I can really share this with in person. I think my teacher's feelings would get hurt despite the fact that its not my intention (I think she takes things personally, she's too sweet for her own good really!).

I know that where I live is a pretty big belly dance scene, and I started in my first year with a great middle eastern dance teacher but she's no longer teaching classes, just privates which are way out of my range. This might sound silly, but the teachers I know would be an excellent choice feel well...kind of impersonal. I'm not necessarily looking for warm and fuzzy but the few times I've taken their classes I feel like I don't exist. I should probably get over this and just learn what I can from them but a simple "hello, good to see you!" I don't think ever hurt anybody.

Thank you again for all the advice and perspectives, and its so nice to feel that I can come to a supportive community with questions and issues! ^^

 

[mahsati_janan]

This might sound silly, but the teachers I know would be an excellent choice feel well...kind of impersonal. I'm not necessarily looking for warm and fuzzy but the few times I've taken their classes I feel like I don't exist. I should probably get over this and just learn what I can from them but a simple "hello, good to see you!" I don't think ever hurt anybody.

You may be seeing a difference in their teaching philosophies. For more tribal teachers (ATS/ITS), I have noticed a huge emphasis on all of the students knowing each other and becoming a cohesive social group. My assumption has always been that this is due to the absolute requirement that ATS/ITS dancers are in tune with their fellow performers. In the more oriental and folkloric styles, you will find some teachers who are very inviting and work to build that kind of feeling in their classes, but you will also find those that treat it more like a traditional dance class like ballet or modern where there teacher remains somewhat separate from the students. Neither is better or worse, but both approaches have strengths and weaknesses. I'd say to try the classes a few times to see if their style of teaching can work for you. It may not, but I'd hate for you to miss out on an awesome teacher based on the difference in class styles.

 

[Yame]

It sounds to me like you've hit a crucial point in your learning journey. The point where you realize how much you don't know, and how much you want to know.

Isn't it sad just how many teachers out there know nothing about this dance, the cultures from where it comes, the music, etc?

Sadly, that's the reality of things. But the good news is that you're coming to realize there are gaps in your knowledge and that's the beginning of addressing these gaps. Some students never come to that realization, and in my opinion that is the biggest reason people start performing silly and careless dances. When people think belly dance is just a bunch of moves and there is no music or culture attached, the dance quickly becomes boring and stale for them, so they start performing to Western pop music (and badly, may I add) thinking they are doing something interesting and innovative instead of deepening their knowledge of the dance and truly getting better.

Most of us in this forum have come to the same realization at some point or another. Most people aren't so lucky as to have a teacher who takes a well-rounded approach right off the bat, so we all end up having similar experiences... teachers who just teach moves but no musicality, no rhythms, no cultural or historical information, no folkloric dances, etc. Then we have to go out on our own trying to fill those gaps and trying to find teachers who know and pass on this important information. For some of us, this happens after a few months or a year of dance, but for others it happens after 4 years, after 10 years, whatever.

It doesn't matter what you spent your time doing before. You didn't know any better. What matters is what you do with your time NOW. And there is plenty you can do.

What I would recommend is that you continue ATS classes if you truly enjoy the style. However, if you are interested in the oriental and oriental-based styles, you should supplement that with classes in the style of your choice, and look for a teacher who is experienced and knowledgeable and who likes passing on that knowledge. Meanwhile, read shira.net, read this forum, read bhuz.com (especially the Music and the Culture/Traditions subforums), and ask questions. This is a journey for all of us, and you will never learn everything. So don't be upset over what you don't know, but always try to learn more!

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

When people think belly dance is just a bunch of moves and there is no music or culture attached, the dance quickly becomes boring and stale for them, so they start performing to Western pop music (and badly, may I add) thinking they are doing something interesting and innovative instead of deepening their knowledge of the dance and truly getting better.

This, 1000X.



Ana, I will give you a starting point. I want you to read 2 books:

Music of Egypt by Scott Marcus
and
Baladi Women of Cairo by Evelyn Early

You should be able to get both from the library, or inter-library loan. Scott's book is cheap though, and includes a GREAT cd.


This will start you off on learning a little bit about the cultures that contribute to Egyptian dance, and also how Egyptian music is structured and interpreted. These books aren't about dance, but they will help you start to see where the dance comes from. Once you get through these two, we'll give you other titles.

We should have an OD.net book club, really.

ETA: You should also check out the dvd Bellydancers of Cairo. It's cheap and is FABULOUS for showing the current culture, and the bonus performances are worth the purchase price.


The above is really Egyptian-centered, and there is more to bellydance than just Egypt, but this is what I'm most familiar with. There are a lot of resources for info on Turkish culture, Nubian/Sudanese, Saudi, etc. But like I said, this is a starting point.

 

[ana_bat]

Most people aren't so lucky as to have a teacher who takes a well-rounded approach right off the bat, so we all end up having similar experiences... teachers who just teach moves but no musicality, no rhythms, no cultural or historical information, no folkloric dances, etc. Then we have to go out on our own trying to fill those gaps and trying to find teachers who know and pass on this important information. For some of us, this happens after a few months or a year of dance, but for others it happens after 4 years, after 10 years, whatever.

When I start to search for a new teacher (and I realize there's a sticky somewhere about picking a teacher) do you think it would be worth my time explaining my background to them and that I am interested in learning the culture and customs associated? Or does that come across as egotistical? (For what its worth I'm really introverted in real life exchanges) My concern is ending up with a good technical teacher yet spending another considerable chunk of time without seeing the results I'm after. Thoughts?

 

[ana_bat]

"I want you to read 2 books:

Music of Egypt by Scott Marcus
and
Baladi Women of Cairo by Evelyn Early"




Thank you thank you! I'm a book worm and I am happiest when reading and researching about something I'm unfamiliar with. I just needed a nudge of where to look. I've read a lot of vague "this where it started" sort of articles on peoples websites but they don't delve in to much detail on anything else. I am going to be sure to revisit Shira's site, its been awhile

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

When I start to search for a new teacher (and I realize there's a sticky somewhere about picking a teacher) do you think it would be worth my time explaining my background to them and that I am interested in learning the culture and customs associated?

As a teacher, I would want to know this about you. It helps a LOT.

Or does that come across as egotistical?

Not at all.

 

[mahsati_janan]

When I start to search for a new teacher (and I realize there's a sticky somewhere about picking a teacher) do you think it would be worth my time explaining my background to them and that I am interested in learning the culture and customs associated? Or does that come across as egotistical? (For what its worth I'm really introverted in real life exchanges) My concern is ending up with a good technical teacher yet spending another considerable chunk of time without seeing the results I'm after. Thoughts?

As a teacher, a couple of the first things that I ask new students are what type of dance experience they have had and what are their learning goals, so I would be thrilled to have someone articulate that to me. I don't think it is egotistical at all to say something like, "I am coming from an ATS background and have concentrated on that style for about 4 years. I am really interested in more information on the cultural, regional, and historical aspects of this dance form, so I am looking for a class that will introduce me to different styles and cultural information."

As a matter of fact, I'd love that student. LOL I focus a lot on the cultural traditions and styles in my classes, so any time someone shows an interest in any of those topics, I try to encourage them to learn as much as they can.

 

[Sophia Maria]

do you think it would be worth my time explaining my background to them and that I am interested in learning the culture and customs associated? Or does that come across as egotistical?

Absolutely worth it. I think the teacher would appreciate getting to know you and your background better. It's not going to come across as egotistical at all, unless you come stomping into the studio demanding that the the teacher teach certain things to you!! But I'm sure teachers benefit from knowing what their students are interested in learning.

 

[Jane]

Congratulations on your new dance journey!

I went through the same thing when I switched from American Oriental to Turkish and Egyptian styles. Each time I switched it felt like I had to start all over and it was overwhelming, especially living in a place with a very miniscule ethnic dance scene. It's tough going but it can be done with lots of commitment to travel, investing in quality instructional videos, skype, and watching famous native dancers on video.