Staleness

[shiradotnet]

On the "Mislabeling a Performance" thread, Caroline said something that sparked the idea to start this new thread.

I used to be in a troupe that was together for over 10 years. I remember when the troupe director created a new choreography, and when my husband saw us perform it he commented, "It was boring, it looked like you just rehashed all your earlier material." He had a point - when I took a step back and looked at it, I realized it contained exactly the same step combinations as our other choreography, just shuffled into a different order.

When I started teaching over ten years ago, there was something about the "tuition choreographies" I created for my classes that bugged me. At first, I couldn't put my finger on what it was, and then I figured it out - those dances were all rehashes of the step combinations I had learned from my teachers. Even though I had multiple teachers, there was still a rut. Several of my teachers had all studied with the same local-area person (or with people she had trained), so they were all teaching her style. So my own choreographies felt stale to me due to the fact that I was rehashing other people's combinations. Yes, they fit the music, but...

Since those two wakeup-call experiences, I've changed my own methodology for creating choreography. I no longer try to pick combos I already know that fit the music, and I'm a lot happier with my newer material.

What experiences have all of you had with staleness? What was your wakeup call? What did you do to fix it?

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Going back to workshops was the answer for me.

Also spending alot more time in Cairo and absorbing stuff you cannot get in workshops.

I still find it hard choosing music for a performances, and not gravitate towards the same thing constantly.

I think finding new things to express through the music and setting yourself new goals and challenges is important. It is easy to stay within your comfort zone and re-hash the same thing to death.

 

[Mya]

Every so often i try to do an exercise where i take one little phrase of music and let myself feel 6 different ways to respond to it. It's kind of helpful because then my body doesn't automatically go to the same one everytime i hear that kind of sound in the music.

 

[Shanazel]

To avoid repeating myself in choreographies for my students' group dances, I choose a song, play it for class a few times, and have my students get together in couples or trios to come up with new combinations. It gives them practice putting moves together into combos, allows me to see things from a fresh perspective, and it's a lot of fun to work out an entire dance together (though I reserve fiat on the matter of what gets used!).

 

[Amulya]

I remember it was the same for me. In Holland lots of dancers have had the same teachers and even the teachers had the same teachers, and everybody used to learn from each other, so it wasn't very surprising that lots of dancers had steps, combinations and styles in common. One time I went to a massive belly dance event in the south and it looked all different from where I came from, but again: those dancers had certain things in common. For example there was a type of very wild heavy hipdrop that they all did, but the dancers of the north didn't.
So to get rid of staying stuck in that I started taking classes in other countries and using DVDs. If I look back at my old videos I can see my dancing has changed into a whole different style then what I did before.

 

[Jane]

When I find myself doing the same old same old, I switch gears.

-I'll try a new dance style
-Go to a workshop with someone I've never studied with before
-Try a new prop or use an old prop in a new way
-Buy a video of a teacher I've never studied with
-Write a choreography in the style of a famous dancer I'm into at the moment
-Pick music that I wouldn't usually gravitate to

 

[Mara2]

On the "Mislabeling a Performance" thread, Caroline said something that sparked the idea to start this new thread.

I used to be in a troupe that was together for over 10 years. I remember when the troupe director created a new choreography, and when my husband saw us perform it he commented, "It was boring, it looked like you just rehashed all your earlier material." He had a point - when I took a step back and looked at it, I realized it contained exactly the same step combinations as our other choreography, just shuffled into a different order.

When I started teaching over ten years ago, there was something about the "tuition choreographies" I created for my classes that bugged me. At first, I couldn't put my finger on what it was, and then I figured it out - those dances were all rehashes of the step combinations I had learned from my teachers. Even though I had multiple teachers, there was still a rut. Several of my teachers had all studied with the same local-area person (or with people she had trained), so they were all teaching her style. So my own choreographies felt stale to me due to the fact that I was rehashing other people's combinations. Yes, they fit the music, but...

Since those two wakeup-call experiences, I've changed my own methodology for creating choreography. I no longer try to pick combos I already know that fit the music, and I'm a lot happier with my newer material.

What experiences have all of you had with staleness? What was your wakeup call? What did you do to fix it?

Hi Shira! I'm sort of unconventional, I guess (?), in that I teach my students to improvise from the very beginning. All of them have their own unique style and signature moves they're very good at. Once in a while, like when they've had performances for school or other events, I help them put together the bones of a choreography, but other than that, no. So each time they dance it's just their individual style, and whatever song/s they happen to like at the moment. :O I just teach the way I was taught.

Oh, almost forgot, when we have done a choreography of some sort, each girl would have some time to dance solo in the front. She could showcase her moves that way.

 

[Amulya]

Improvisation is very important, I notice if you don't teach that right in the beginning, it's harder for students to learn later. (hope this is not too off-topic!)

 

[shiradotnet]

I'm sort of unconventional, I guess (?), in that I teach my students to improvise from the very beginning.

But staleness can occur even when people improvise.

If you always draw from the same step combinations, you can become stale. I remember videotaping a certain dancer (with permission) back in the 1990's, and about 7 years later I videotaped her again. She ALWAYS improvised when dancing. One day I happened upon both tapes and watched them, one right after the other, and I was struck by the fact that even though she was dancing to entirely different songs, she was doing exactly the same thing to both of them, making it look as though she was doing a choreography!

 

[Mara2]

But staleness can occur even when people improvise.

If you always draw from the same step combinations, you can become stale. I remember videotaping a certain dancer (with permission) back in the 1990's, and about 7 years later I videotaped her again. She ALWAYS improvised when dancing. One day I happened upon both tapes and watched them, one right after the other, and I was struck by the fact that even though she was dancing to entirely different songs, she was doing exactly the same thing to both of them, making it look as though she was doing a choreography!

Hmm...I've noticed my students have certain movements they favor, but there are SO many of them to choose from...I'm surprised she was doing the same thing. Especially after all that time. I honestly don't know what to say to that. I've never noticed that with my students, other than one may favor a certain movement which you usually will see her use in her performance. For instance, one is amazing at deep backbends, and you can always count on her to do at least one. One is great at floorwork, so if the dance surface permits, she'll do at least a little of that. But...a dancer who gets stuck using the same moves over and over...I really don't know? :think: I mean, each individual dancer *should* have their own style, but the same moves always? Hmmm

 

[Kharis]

But staleness can occur even when people improvise.

If you always draw from the same step combinations, you can become stale.

I wonder about this, because when I watch Fifi and Souhair and Mona Said, they do exactly the same moves in exactly the same way in performance after performance with but minor changes or nuances, but it's somehow not stale or boring. So, I'm wondering if this staleness has to do with something more internal.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

I wonder about this, because when I watch Fifi and Souhair and Mona Said, they do exactly the same moves in exactly the same way in performance after performance with but minor changes or nuances, but it's somehow not stale or boring. So, I'm wondering if this staleness has to do with something more internal.

I haven't done the same study with Sohair, and I'm still working on Fifi's analysis, but Mona Said only has about a handful (a dozen at the most) distinct "moves" in her repertoire and that has always impressed me -- how she can do so much more with "less" -- you know?

 

[Kharis]

I haven't done the same study with Sohair, and I'm still working on Fifi's analysis, but Mona Said only has about a handful (a dozen at the most) distinct "moves" in her repertoire and that has always impressed me -- how she can do so much more with "less" -- you know?

I do agree with her observation here. It can be kind of dreary to watch a dancer 'cram' when they dance. It's just not necessary.

 

[shiradotnet]

It can be kind of dreary to watch a dancer 'cram' when they dance. It's just not necessary.

I do agree with this. I like simplicity. I don't think it's necessary for a dancer to put every move she ever learned into a 5-minute dance, or even an hour-long show.

I haven't done the analysis, but I wonder if the dancers you identified as role models (Fifi, Mona, etc.) evolved over the course of their careers, abandoning some moves while introducing others. Or did they dance exactly the same early in their careers as they did 20 years later?