that "other" 3/4 shimmy

[belly_dancer]

Moon, I take the opposite approach. I love learning as many commonly used names for moves as possible, so when I get into forums like this, I can "speak local dialect". I can also pass it on to my students, who may take workshops elsewhere or move somewhere out of state, and will be prepared for the naming craziness!

eeekkk MY brain just doe NOT work this way..... actually IN person when I SEE a step & I KNOW what step we are talking about whether or not it has the same name.... then I like it for reasons you state above T.D (& I do pass on to my students other names I have heard for the step I am talking about).... but when I am reading a description on line.... then I am not SURE what the person is writing about so I hesitate to think it is a step I know as (fill in the blank!)... or even if they use a NAME of a step that I call by the same NAME... is it REALLY the same STEP????? I guess it is just harder for me to translate a written description into a picture in my mind...

 

[Kashmir]

So this chonk or articulated shimmy is in the Egyptian style then? Just clarifying. Maybe I missed this one because my original teacher was AmCab with very heavy Turkish influence? She and her troupe-mates from the early 70's spun off most of the dance teachers in my area. So maybe no one teaches the chonk because they never learned it or we learned it so differently it's gradually morphed into something else.

I learned an Egyptian walk that sounds like a similar or related movement to the chonk shimmy, although it looks different from the ones I see on the ATS dancers or Jenna on her Heartbeat DVD. Mine looks very heavy, grounded and earthy and moves inward on the down hip, pushing the opposite hip up slightly to the rear. I've also heard other dancers describe this as the Hagallah step. Is the terminology wrong for these moves? How different are the chonk shimmy, the Egyptian walk and the Hagallah step? Is the difference only in the pause placement or continuous motion?:think:

Chonk? I've heard of the Suheir (Zaki) chonk - but it isn't a shimmy. The "waist" contracts, lifting the hip which then slides slightly out before dropping back down again - so you travel slightly sideways. Usually done on demi.

The Haggala (as I've been taught by a range of folkloric teachers from Egypt) is a downward (or Egyptian ) 3/4 with a slight twist foward and down. Often is is then further stylized to emphasize the butt. Definitely flat footed - very earthy. So, you could call the Haggala a Egyptian 3/4 variation - but the feel is very, very different.

 

[Kashmir]

Belly_dancer, I've only been taking lessons for 2 years now, but so far from 3 different teachers and they don't use exactly the same names for every move. So I've given up on learning names for moves. It's not important. I prefer learning how to execute them properly If names are used a lot, I'll eventually remember what it is. If not, I just describe the move I'm talking about.

I'm with you on that! Not only do different people call the same move different names but the same named move can be quite different things! Wasn't an issue initially as my early Egyptian teachers neither broke things down nor named them :lol:

Now that people are teaching more choreographies, naming is being used more to capture the sequences. Dr Mo Geddawi compromised on this (even though he has named many of the moves he uses) by naming chunks of choreography as in "now repeat the gazelle" (which was about a 16 count phrase rather than a "move" )

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

The Haggala (as I've been taught by a range of folkloric teachers from Egypt) is a downward (or Egyptian ) 3/4 with a slight twist foward and down. Often is is then further stylized to emphasize the butt. Definitely flat footed - very earthy. So, you could call the Haggala a Egyptian 3/4 variation - but the feel is very, very different.

Yes -- this is how I've learned it in Bedouin dance classes.

Hagallah = Bedouin. Bedouin are not Egyptians, but I'm sure some Egyptian dancer at some point used Hagallah steps in her dance.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

Mine looks very heavy, grounded and earthy and moves inward on the down hip, pushing the opposite hip up slightly to the rear. I've also heard other dancers describe this as the Hagallah step. Is the terminology wrong for these moves? How different are the chonk shimmy, the Egyptian walk and the Hagallah step? Is the difference only in the pause placement or continuous motion?:think:

Some American instructors teach a "Hagallah Step" as what you describe here, and sometimes with a straighter back leg. I'm sure this is an Orientalized version of the actual ethnic dance step, prettifying it and controlling it a bit.

There may not be a lot of difference in the actual step -- just in the feeling. Hagallah isn't really prettified. An Oriental version might be more pretty, or maybe a little smaller.

What's the diff between a debke grapevine and an Oriental grapevine? Nothing but the feeling. And maybe you bend your knees more on the debke style. But ultimately, it's the same step.

 

[Moon]

I'm with you on that! Not only do different people call the same move different names but the same named move can be quite different things!

Exactly! My teacher #1 used the name "basic step" for a certain move and the name "forward and back step" for another move. Teacher #2 called this "forward and back step" the "basic step" and I forgot what she calls the other "basic step". Now, teacher #3 calls a shimmy a "shiver", a big hip circle a "break" and a relaxed shimmy "pudding hips" :lol:

 

[Kashmir]

Yes -- this is how I've learned it in Bedouin dance classes.

Hagallah = Bedouin. Bedouin are not Egyptians, but I'm sure some Egyptian dancer at some point used Hagallah steps in her dance.

Many Bedouins live in Egypt - so Bedouin folklore (including Haggalah which is a small sub-style) is sometimes taught in Egyptian folklore classes.

 

[rita1969]

So many shimmies to learn

So many diffrent shimmies to learn

 

[Jane]

Some American instructors teach a "Hagallah Step" as what you describe here, and sometimes with a straighter back leg. I'm sure this is an Orientalized version of the actual ethnic dance step, prettifying it and controlling it a bit.

There may not be a lot of difference in the actual step -- just in the feeling. Hagallah isn't really prettified. An Oriental version might be more pretty, or maybe a little smaller. QUOTE]

That sounds about right, esp. about the straighter back leg. Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[RioDancerCO]

Yay, I'm so glad I noticed someone mention the Samiha as the 'other 3/4'. I was trying to puzzle out everyone's different notations (convinced I'd found a new move! and perhaps I have). My teacher 'calls' it as
DOWN, UpDown, Down, UpDown.
Big Down (R), with a twist
Up (R), Down (R)
weight change, Down (L), Up (L), Down (L)