Is Belly Dancing considered risque??

[Erik]

I was highly offended by the "creaming" remark, and was going to say something about it after I got through reading the rest of the posts. It's not an appropriate word on this forum.

Thank you, Farasha. The dance is not going to gain any respect as an art if that kind of thinking prevails, which is why I was baffled by what Shanazel said. Yes, I knew it was considered risque at one time, but kids today need only turn on the television to see much more risque stuff than that.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

Thank you, Farasha. The dance is not going to gain any respect as an art if that kind of thinking prevails, which is why I was baffled by what Shanazel said. Yes, I knew it was considered risque at one time, but kids today need only turn on the television to see much more risque stuff than that.

Well, I understand the point your were trying to make in your first post in this thread, but I also understand why using your analogy might not have been the best choice. You've apologized, though, and I agree, we moderators probably should have said something to the other poster earlier on about her language, but as someone else has already suggested, it might have just been missed. I just started reading this thread tonight.

Anyway, no more worries. You always seem quite nice and civil, and willing to work things out. That quality is much appreciated.

Oh, I agree with your last statement. My 24-year-old daughter watches MTV... *shudders*

 

[Belly Love]

We need people who will actually foster the arts and not attack artists as being sexual.

The dance isn't meant to be sexual- what don't you get about that? Don't you get that when you sexualize an already established art form that you are degrading it? This isn't just belly dance, this goes for many dance forms.

Belly dance is not a sexual dance- it CAN be SEEN as sexy, but it's not sexual. There is a huge difference between the two.

Women who feel the need to be overly sexual/sexy in public, always have some sort of insecurity issues and have to have constant attention from the opposite sex to validate their lives and feel good about themselves. It has nothing to do with "sexual liberty" or "freedom from oppression".

Maybe you are one of those women? Therefore, when other people don't agree with all of your sexual belly dance ideas, you get mad. This is what you use to validate yourself and when others don't validate you, you feel bad about yourself so you feel the need to lash out by calling everyone "moralists", etc.

What everyone is trying to tell you is the ability to sexually excite a man is not proof of one's dancing talent.

Exactly! This sums up everything perfectly.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

The dance isn't meant to be sexual- what don't you get about that? Don't you get that when you sexualize an already established art form that you are degrading it? This isn't just belly dance, this goes for many dance forms.

Belly dance is not a sexual dance- it CAN be SEEN as sexy, but it's not sexual. There is a huge difference between the two.

Women who feel the need to be overly sexual/sexy in public, always have some sort of insecurity issues and have to have constant attention from the opposite sex to validate their lives and feel good about themselves. It has nothing to do with "sexual liberty" or "freedom from oppression".

Maybe you are one of those women? Therefore, when other people don't agree with all of your sexual belly dance ideas, you get mad. This is what you use to validate yourself and when others don't validate you, you feel bad about yourself so you feel the need to lash out by calling everyone "moralists", etc.



Exactly! This sums up everything perfectly.

arrrrrrrgh, I so wanted to rep you for this, but it won't let me. I have to spread some more love around first.

 

[Greek Bonfire]

arrrrrrrgh, I so wanted to rep you for this, but it won't let me. I have to spread some more love around first.

Off topic - this repping stuff is definitely not meritorious!

 

[walladah]

Farasha Hanem, I rep'ed Belly Love for you!

Actually, all this discussion about bellydancing being a sexual dance or whether it is necessary the dancer to perform in a sexual manner to be a good dancer, reveals what we all miss and we need an "exotic" art to bring it again on the discussion table.

We miss the mentality of all those middle eastern dancers, most of them of the vintage school, who were dancing already knowing that they needed not to be sexual on stage, as they believed (and this was radiant on their attitide while dancing) that if they wanted, they seduce anyone they targetted. Actually, their dance reveals their inner thought "i do not need even to move my little finger to attract attention and i dance because i want to have fun".

This of course might not be their inner thought (who knows?) but they danced as if it was, to the point that we are persuaded today of they complete self-confidence.

However, to have a real discussion on that i would prefer to have videos to support our views and make the entire discussion a middle eastern dance workshop on attitude.

Let's start right now!

YouTube - Samia Gamal - Zeina

 

[Darshiva]

Virtural reps to bellylove & walladah, because I have to spread the love around before repping either of you again!

Beautifully said, BL, and please accept Fotia's rep on behalf of me as well.

 

[Ariadne]

I have to agree with Shanazel, that little detour was pretty funny.

(Mind you she helped that along just a titch.)

 

[walladah]

Thank you Darshiva!

Virtual rep is just as an honor as the click-and-approve one!

I would also like to add today something i was reading yesterday, by mere chance (or not?) about Tahia Carioca: Edward Said (yes, the author of "Orientalism" and path-breaker of postcolonial studies) has written an excellent obituary for her, titled "Farewell to Tahia", talking about everything he knew about her. Once you read the piece, you will see how we, the outsiders of Egyptian or Arab culture, might have misconceived oriental dance and also the position of the oriental dancer while dancing and while not dancing (Tahia was also an activist!!). And yes, she had married many times, so she did not need to marry(=have an intercourse) on stage!

The piece by Said, you may find it in Sherifa Zuhur (2004): Colors of enchantment, The American University in Cairo Press, Cairo & New York.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

Actually, all this discussion about bellydancing being a sexual dance or whether it is necessary the dancer to perform in a sexual manner to be a good dancer, reveals what we all miss and we need an "exotic" art to bring it again on the discussion table.

We miss the mentality of all those middle eastern dancers, most of them of the vintage school, who were dancing already knowing that they needed not to be sexual on stage, as they believed (and this was radiant on their attitide while dancing) that if they wanted, they seduce anyone they targetted. Actually, their dance reveals their inner thought "i do not need even to move my little finger to attract attention and i dance because i want to have fun".

This of course might not be their inner thought (who knows?) but they danced as if it was, to the point that we are persuaded today of they complete self-confidence.

However, to have a real discussion on that i would prefer to have videos to support our views and make the entire discussion a middle eastern dance workshop on attitude.

Let's start right now!

YouTube - Samia Gamal - Zeina

Thank you, walladah!

Off topic - this repping stuff is definitely not meritorious!

I know. I only rep when I feel that the poster deserves it, so sometimes it may take awhile to get back around to repping a person who keeps saying things that are wise, noteworthy, and dead-on.

I'll give you virtual rep for now, Belly Love. You said what a lot of us feel, and you are coming along far in your study of bellydance. Of course, all of us still have a long way to go, but I believe you are building a strong, solid foundation, and I for one, am very proud of your progress.

 

[Shanazel]

I still want to grow up to be Samia Gamahl. No fancy combinations, no gimmicks, no muscular gymnastics. just pure beautiful dance. Siiiigh.

 

[Belly Love]

I only rep when I feel that the poster deserves it, so sometimes it may take awhile to get back around to repping a person who keeps saying things that are wise, noteworthy, and dead-on.

Okay, we all know you're talking about me! Ha, ha, I kid, I kid

I'll give you virtual rep for now, Belly Love. You said what a lot of us feel, and you are coming along far in your study of bellydance. Of course, all of us still have a long way to go, but I believe you are building a strong, solid foundation, and I for one, am very proud of your progress.

Awww, thank you. So much to learn...

 

[Greek Bonfire]

I still want to grow up to be Samia Gamahl. No fancy combinations, no gimmicks, no muscular gymnastics. just pure beautiful dance. Siiiigh.

I know - but with a different hairstyle

 

[Shanazel]

Fotia, if I could have that body and that smile I'd even take the hairstyle!

 

[Darshiva]

Sadly, I have the smile, not the body, and a great desire to dance that way.

Such a gloriously beautiful woman and an elegant dancer. Her moves look deceptively simple until you give them a try. I think I'll spend a long time learning from her.

To drag the subject back to topic, I dont think anyone could call Samia Gamal's dancing risque!

 

[Reen.Blom]

I think It is rightly considered risque. If you decide to show your cleavage/tummy/leg ( and mostly all at once) does it surpise you that GP see it as... well... Risque I guess is the polite term? This danceform comes with strings attached, so what?

 

[Sirène]

I think It is rightly considered risque. If you decide to show your cleavage/tummy/leg ( and mostly all at once) does it surpise you that GP see it as... well... Risque I guess is the polite term? This danceform comes with strings attached, so what?

I can see your point of view, but I guess I see the "strings" as unfairly attached. Yes, belly dancers have beautiful costumes that accent their figures. However, ballerina's prance around on stage in something the size of and as form fitting as a swimsuit, often structured like a bustier (aka underwear), doing moves that show their crotch, often with a male partner, yet no one calls that risqué.

 

[Reen.Blom]

Sorry, Bellerinas dont come up to you in a restaurant doing chest shimmy in a bra 2 sizes too small....

Stereotype ballerina and stereotime bellydancer.....

As for strings UNFAIRLY attached add to this bellydancing being connected with prostituting in ME... Big difference between theatre stage and a nightclub...

 

[Starmouth]

I suppose BD is considered risque, but is that really a negative thing? I'm not going to go looking for the dictionary, but 'risque' to me suggests something that is exciting and pushes the boundaries of what is generally seen as acceptable. The book 'Forever Amber' by Kathleen Windsor was considered so risque when it was published (sometime in the 40s I believe) that it was banned. Yet reading it now, the closest thing to shocking in the book is a description of a woman wearing a tight bodice.

Times change - I would guess that belly dance was seen as far more shocking thirty years ago, and will seem positively dowdy in another thirty years, what with all the stripperbots and come-hither androids. :lol:

 

[Sirène]

Sorry, Bellerinas dont come up to you in a restaurant doing chest shimmy in a bra 2 sizes too small....

I'm tempted to say that's because ballerinas have nothing to shake :lol:, but I'll try to behave myself .

I think it's fair to say that ballerinas don't "come up to you" because a) they don't expect to interact with the audience in that manner, and b) many of the moves in their repertoire could potentially injure an audience member if the dancer made contact. Avoiding close-quarters is a matter of safety. Belly dancers don't have those restrictions (assuming no dangerous props).

Kaya & Sadie are a special pair. There are things I like about them, and there are things I intensely dislike about them. I don't consider them representative of the "average" belly dancer. If you look at the Beautiful Belly Dance pictures thread I think you'll see that most dancers wear properly fitting costumes that leave more to the imagination.