Its?

[Salome]

I am seeing the Improvised Tribal style term come up more and more. Could someone tell me about it? How does it differ from ATS?

 

[catwomyn]

Carolina Nerriccio has asked that ATS be reserved for people who are using strictly Fat Chance format. If dancers are adding other moves and styles, she feels it should be called something else. At least this is my understanding of it from Tribe.net discussions.

 

[da Sage]

Carolena Nericcio made a statement a couple of years ago, basically saying that her style was the only real American Tribal Style (ATS), and everyone else's local variations and modifications were actually something else - derivatives of ATS. So dance groups that previously defined their style as ATS, now often describe that same style as ITS (Improv Tribal Style). We haven't changed what we are doing, so much as changing the description in deference to Carolena's freshly articulated definition of ATS.

 

[Miranda Phoenix]

What they said.

 

[Salome]

Ok, got it, thanks!

 

[Amulya]

Carolena Nericcio made a statement a couple of years ago, basically saying that her style was the only real American Tribal Style (ATS), and everyone else's local variations and modifications were actually something else - derivatives of ATS. So dance groups that previously defined their style as ATS, now often describe that same style as ITS (Improv Tribal Style). We haven't changed what we are doing, so much as changing the description in deference to Carolena's freshly articulated definition of ATS.

I also didn't hear of ITS before, thought it was a mis-spelling haha! Do you mean 'improved' or 'improvisation'? Is it different from Tribal Fusion?

 

[da Sage]

I also didn't hear of ITS before, thought it was a mis-spelling haha! Do you mean 'improved' or 'improvisation'? Is it different from Tribal Fusion?

In American dance and theater communities, "improv" is short for improvisational. It's generally seen as different from Tribal Fusion because the focus is on the group improvisational characteristic, rather than the fusion characteristics (even Carolena's original ATS has some strong Indian and Flamenco elements thrown in).

So ITS is pretty much different from Tribal Fusion in the same way that ATS is different from Tribal Fusion. Except it's not ATS, either.

 

[Amulya]

Time for an ITS clip I think! So let me understand this right : ITS is like Tribal Fusion but improvised instead of choreographed? But then not all Tribal Fusion is choreographed is it? I'm a bit of a dinasaur LOL. My last tribal workshops were years ago and it's hard to keep up with all the changes.

*totally confused now*

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Carolina Nerriccio has asked that ATS be reserved for people who are using strictly Fat Chance format. If dancers are adding other moves and styles, she feels it should be called something else. At least this is my understanding of it from Tribe.net discussions.

well I wish people would be so understanding with regards to MED and not call it that when others things are added which fundamentally change it.

I and many others are continually saying the same thing in respect to MED.

Maybe we should bring Carolina on board to defend the MED cause... people may listen.

 

[maria_harlequin]

ITS (Blacksheep format)



ATS:



As you can see, both ATS and ITS are the same in which they use cues and a change of leaders as well as a similarity in movements. I've studied both FatChance Tribal Pura and BlackSheep's format (strictly FatChance now) and they're similar. Some differences are that Blacksheep would dance with both hips while FatChance would only use the right hip.

Also, ATS isn't necessarily improvised all the time. While the basis for ATS is in improv, choreographies are not unknown nor are they forbidden. Depending on the venue, FatChance choreographs from time to time.

There's a world of difference between Tribal Fusion and ATS. A lot of older school Tribal Fusion-ists borrow heavily from ATS but I don't see a lot of that anymore.

A pet peeve I have about certain ITS formats is that a lot of it has strayed so far away from the original that it just doesn't look pretty anymore...I've seen a lot of troupes add jumps and strange hand movements that's just plain painful to watch all in the name of creating something different from the original Tribal Pura. I mean, there's some nice ITS out there but there but it's really not my thing.

 

[maria_harlequin]

ITS (Blacksheep format)



ATS:



ATS (Tribal Manhattan Sister Studio)



As you can see, both ATS and ITS are the same in which they use cues and a change of leaders as well as a similarity in movements. I've studied both FatChance Tribal Pura and BlackSheep's format (strictly FatChance now) and they're similar. Some differences are that Blacksheep would dance with both hips while FatChance would only use the right hip.

Also, ATS isn't necessarily improvised all the time. While the basis for ATS is in improv, choreographies are not unknown nor are they forbidden. Depending on the venue, FatChance choreographs from time to time.

There's a world of difference between Tribal Fusion and ATS. A lot of older school Tribal Fusion-ists borrow heavily from ATS but I don't see a lot of that anymore.

A pet peeve I have about certain ITS formats is that a lot of it has strayed so far away from the original that it just doesn't look pretty anymore...I've seen a lot of troupes add jumps and strange hand movements that's just plain painful to watch all in the name of creating something different from the original Tribal Pura. I mean, there's some nice ITS out there but there but it's really not my thing.

 

[da Sage]

Time for an ITS clip I think! So let me understand this right : ITS is like Tribal Fusion but improvised instead of choreographed? But then not all Tribal Fusion is choreographed is it? I'm a bit of a dinasaur LOL. My last tribal workshops were years ago and it's hard to keep up with all the changes.

*totally confused now*

ITS is like ATS, except it's not the same group of moves. Some individual ITS moves are different from ATS moves, which is EXACTLY what makes it different from ATS. The defining concept of both ATS and ITS is that they are codified groups of dance movements/combinations with set cues, such that one dancer can lead others an improvised choreography by making the appropriate cues before each move.

ATS involves some stylizations drawn from Flamenco and Indian dance. So it is technically a fusion dance (not entirely Middle Eastern move components, and that's before we even get to the Western cue structure).

Tribal Fusion is ostensibly a further fusion of ATS or ITS movements with more Middle Eastern, Indian, African, Hip Hop, lyrical, spOOKy, or modern dance. Typically Tribal Fusion is done solo (either choreography or free-form improvisation similar to traditional bellydance styles), or in groups (choreographed beforehand, not on-the-spot improv with the use of cues).

Interestingly enough, I think only one of the ladies teaching Tribal Fusion in my city has actually pursued extended ATS/ITS study. I love Tribal Fusion, but IMO the ATS roots have almost vanished from most dancer's styles.

 

[alosha]

The lack of "tribal" in tribal fusion is getting old. Just call it fusion if you're not using tribal moves. Just my opinion.

 

[Mya]

The lack of "tribal" in tribal fusion is getting old. Just call it fusion if you're not using tribal moves. Just my opinion.

Are they modern/hiphop/jazz/anything goes dancers in tribal fusion drag then? :shok:

 

[alosha]

pretty much. I like to see some elements of tribal in the performance if "tribal" is in the title.

 

[lizaj]

In our troupe we use the moves of FCBD,GC,Black Sheep and Domba and rarely improv so have always call ourselves Tribal Fusion. Since the solo artist came along and dancers who have pushed away from ATS roots to diverse and fusions with other dances, some have dropped the "Tribal".
Little old fashioned me actually teaches ATS or rather ITS as I don't follow FCBD slavishly.
I firmly believe you can still clearly see belly dance roots in many ATS and Tribal Fusion routines but if you tell me when I dance "tribal", I'm not a belly dancer because the style is not from the ME,I'll accept that.

 

[kayshier]

well I wish people would be so understanding with regards to MED and not call it that when others things are added which fundamentally change it.

I and many others are continually saying the same thing in respect to MED.

Maybe we should bring Carolina on board to defend the MED cause... people may listen.

:clap::clap::clap:
but i doubt that would ever change caroline, especially when well marketed shows like BDSS exist.

 

[Caroline_afifi]

I was thinking more of the past arguments of 'tribal belly dance/ATS' .

There seems to be precise attention paid to seperating these dance styles from each other, but many still see it as 'belly dance' :think:

For me, I cant tell one from another and they all look like 'Tribal'... but non look ar all like Belly dance.

Is there an icon for head scratching?

 

[Amulya]

ITS (Blacksheep format)



ATS:



As you can see, both ATS and ITS are the same in which they use cues and a change of leaders as well as a similarity in movements. I've studied both FatChance Tribal Pura and BlackSheep's format (strictly FatChance now) and they're similar. Some differences are that Blacksheep would dance with both hips while FatChance would only use the right hip.

Also, ATS isn't necessarily improvised all the time. While the basis for ATS is in improv, choreographies are not unknown nor are they forbidden. Depending on the venue, FatChance choreographs from time to time.

There's a world of difference between Tribal Fusion and ATS. A lot of older school Tribal Fusion-ists borrow heavily from ATS but I don't see a lot of that anymore.

A pet peeve I have about certain ITS formats is that a lot of it has strayed so far away from the original that it just doesn't look pretty anymore...I've seen a lot of troupes add jumps and strange hand movements that's just plain painful to watch all in the name of creating something different from the original Tribal Pura. I mean, there's some nice ITS out there but there but it's really not my thing.

Thanks for explaining! I've never understood the thing where FCBD uses the right hip only. To me that sounds painful and lopsided (and I'm 'left-hipped', so it wouldn't work for me LOL, my choreograpies always start with the left hip haha)

What you said about ITS groups that have moved very far away from the original, that explains a lot for the numerous very weird dance clips on Youtube. Some of those things are just laugheble.

As for Tribal Fusion, I prefer that over the other tribal styles and it's my inspiration for Tribaret (some tribaret dancers tend towards ATS) and there are many different styles of tribaret. For me, I tend to stay on the cabaret side of it, so it still is very much belly dance

 

[da Sage]

What you said about ITS groups that have moved very far away from the original, that explains a lot for the numerous very weird dance clips on Youtube. Some of those things are just laugheble.

I'm curious what ITS performances you found weird, as most of the the weird stuff I've seen is Tribal Fusion or Oriental Fusion. Feel free to PM me!