Choreo or Improv

[jenc]

Yesterday I asked one of my teachers "Do you choreo your solo dances?"

She replied "Yes I think you have to"

Another teacher told me that she only improvises in her kitchen, but no one will ever see hre do it.

I am interested to get a feel of how you dance and under what circs. Not counting kitchen only, how much do you choreo. Does it vary according to where you dance and who for? Oh and how long have you been dancing, and how do you see yourself, eg beginner - professional?

By the way, I am myself, a front room only improv dancer, but mainly cos I don't have any performane opportunities!!

And cos there's no room in my kitchen!!

 

[Eshta]

I don't think there's a set answer to this. I think it depends on so many things, but ultimately personal preference appears to be the deciding factor.

Lorna improvises everything, but Leila (US dancer who dances on the same boat as Lorna) says she choreographs her opening and closing piece and improvises the rest. Serena Ramzy has loose choreographies to oriental numbers but improvises baladi and drum solos (she has sound-activated hips :shok. I'm using those three as examples because they are all used to working with live bands and I've had the opportunity to grill them on this exact question :lol:!

I think you can run the risk of detaching from the music when you choreograph, but it is a comfortable 'net' to hang your flashier dancing on, if that makes sense.

Me? I'd love to improvise everything I did but I'm too chicken I tend to choreograph major 'landmarks' in the music but not always a very tight choreography. And improvise the bits in between. I don't improvise drum solos but am aware that it's something I need to work on.

We are so used to dancing to pre-recorded music too that it makes it hard to improvise to an entirely new piece of music.

 

[Mya]

I also loosely choreograph pieces - mostly the very beginning, especially if it has one of those grand sounding intros and anything very outstanding in between and the finale. Mostly i improvise in between - usually i dance best when i improvise.

 

[karena]

For what it's worth I currently am trying to structure but not choreo. Sounds like Eshta's approach. I have an idea what I will do in different bits, and key things I want to do are choreo but I leave space in between. But this is specifically because I am very good at remembering choreos, so I decided I wanted to move outside of what I am comfortable with to develop myself. I am also working on not just doing a 'look at this technique' exhibition and instead engage, emote all that stuff, again cos that's where I want to develop. So not choreoing is tied up in that; the idea is I don't want to know what I am going to do always so I can react and interact. But I still do choreos too, as they are what is comfortable and I don't want to challenge myself all the time.

To me it seems dangerous to only ever choreo. What do you do if you need to dance spontaneously? What is you get the chance to dance with a live band? What do you do if you are just bopping around to music you don't know?

 

[Gia al Qamar]

What I find is that consistent patterns of combinations develop as I rehearse a number for presentation...the 'routine' of practice helps develop combinations, floor patterns and series of movements that usually end up in the number as I dance it without 'written' choreography...I like to be free to improvise what I feel at the moment I am presenting the piece to an audience.
I save written choreography for my troupe...
Gia

 

[SmilingMarie]

Gia, Eshta, Karena - I'm right behind you!
I have to do choreos for my classes but dont use them myself. But, of course, I practise a lot and get a few basic structures down (the intro and ending, when to move about and when to stand still etc).
Last year, I had a performance in a big show - and was dancing to a piece of music I really liked. I was obviously working even harder the days before the show at getting everything just right. But then I stopped. I found that I had started to choreograph too much and it was detracting from what i wanted to convey (it was a modern baladi piece with song)... So I just crossed my fingers on the day and went on stage just wanting to enjoy myself - and I did! And I think it showed (got some nice feedback).

So I am definitely not the choreo-kind of gal

 

[Nineveh]

I love improvising! I have never performed for audiance other than family and friends with an all improvised dance; but in all my choreos, there are several improvised pieces!

 

[Kharis]

Yesterday I asked one of my teachers "Do you choreo your solo dances?"

She replied "Yes I think you have to"

Another teacher told me that she only improvises in her kitchen, but no one will ever see hre do it.

I am interested to get a feel of how you dance and under what circs. Not counting kitchen only, how much do you choreo. Does it vary according to where you dance and who for? Oh and how long have you been dancing, and how do you see yourself, eg beginner - professional?

By the way, I am myself, a front room only improv dancer, but mainly cos I don't have any performane opportunities!!

And cos there's no room in my kitchen!!

From reading your post here and on Bhuz, I'm beginning to wonder what kind of teachers you have!!!
It's absolutely essential that you be able to improvise. Particularly if you are wanting to or have the opportunity to perform with musicians, who in my experience are a breed apart and about as predictable as a herd of rhinos. I've produced several professional dancers from my classes and quite a few teachers. I make my students improvise all the time, right from being beginners.

 

[jenc]

I am actually beginning to think about trying to choreo. I will probably forget it all anyway. I think that it might help me to have more choices in the long run. i am however adamant that I will nver choreo 32 of anything (even if we DO change direction in the middle!!!!)

 

[Kashmir]

My choice is to improvise. I usually know the entrance and finale and have some idea of the structure in between. I wouldn't do a cold improvisation for a paying gig - although I do it for friends.

 

[teela]

I've been studying belly dancing for the past 9 years. Its only in the past couple years I've started learning how to dance more improv than choreography. Right now I perform 2 to 3 times a year at shows that are with the workshops I attend. I am finding I use what I call a structured improv. I listen to music over and over until I can picture things going with certain phrases of music. I then dance, it over and over but its never the same each time because I'm shifiting thing around, trying this or that until I know the music cold and know what type of move goes with what. I don't like straight choreography because I never remember everything.

 

[Kharis]

I am actually beginning to think about trying to choreo. I will probably forget it all anyway. I think that it might help me to have more choices in the long run. i am however adamant that I will nver choreo 32 of anything (even if we DO change direction in the middle!!!!)

I do hope you find someone who can help you with this. You seem passionate about the dance and learning and this is half the battle. I improvise at every gig I do, and always have done. What point rehearsing when you may turn up at your gig, and the CD won't play, or there's no room to do your choreo, or the idiot dj changes the music, etc etc. This has all happened to me. But it never affected me, coz I don't choreograph.

 

[illustria]

I guess choreography is very comfortable: if you memorize and practice it, it will turn out good. However, like many of the other posters, I know what it's like to lose something essential at the last minute: bad sound, no sound, microphone not working (I'm also a public speaker and lecturer), sleepy audience, etc. Spontaneity is very important.

I think that's one of the powers of belly dancing: you have basic steps that you can build on and use, but you can certainly improvise. I remember hearing somewhere that the best belly dancers are the mouthpieces of the music that they dance to. A dance is a story told with fluidity and grace, so you watch the story unfold through a dancer's movements. The best belly dancers are also those that let the music tell them what to dance, so I guess I'm leaning toward improv.

Moreover, i use improv to practice. I have this "lottery" of all the basic steps written down on strips of paper. I pick 4 out of the bag - and say, come up with Mya, Snake Arms, Horizontal Chest Circles, and Egyptian Shimmy. I turn the music on and use those 4 steps to construct the dance. So I guess it's half-improv, half-choreo (or half-silliness and half-insanity, hahaha)

but who am I talk? I'm a beginner. Oh but I loooooove belly dancing! Love it love it love it!

 

[kayshier]

I remember when i first started to learn how to dance, we did choeographies..it was very comfortable because at that time every thing was new.
as i began to be more intense about my dancing, my teacher made me do improvisations..it was VERY difficult to say the least. we heard the song for the first time, and i just had to dance. clumsy couldn't begin to describe how i felt..lol

after a while though i saw the benefit of doing improvisations after a while..as i understood the music more it was easier for me to interpret it. I'm nowhere near the level where i want to be dancing, but i have to say for me its the improvisations that will bring out the best in anybody.

 

[Kharis]

The other thing is... how can you perform baladi if you don't improvise? A baladi piece is never choreographed, it's fully improvisational, and baladi is an integral part of this dance culture.

 

[maylynn]

I am an improv girl ALL THE WAY.

When I first started dancing professionally I used to choreograph most of my pieces, and then started throwing improv in bit by bit. I found the improv to be much more fun and it garnered a much more positive and engaged response from the audience. From there, I never looked back, and not only do I improv all my gigs, but also all my onstage performances (hello Saqarah!).

That being said, I love choreographing and when I was teaching got lots of pleasure from choreographing numbers for my students. I think improv is harder to learn - you need to learn the language of the dance and the music before you can start putting sentences together on your own, if that makes sense. I remember when I was just starting out with bellydance and improv seemed a daunting and impossible task. It's fun, and it comes with experience!

That being said, when I do onstage performances and am doing improv (although it will be to familiar music so I suppose spot choreographed a bit), of late I have thought that I really should take the time to choreograph some more pieces - because when almost everyone else is performing choreographies I think it looks a lot more polished and as Eshta said, makes it possible to show off your flashier moves!

 

[jenc]

That's interestng. I find choreo impossible so far. I have been dancing 2.5 years, and have learnt only how can I put it, very symmetrical choreos with mostly basic moves, so I find it difficult to work out what to put next - and then I get first 15 seconds down and forget it completely.

when I dance improv my body seems to know far more moves, although as my brain doesn't know them I can't catch them for choreo. does this make sense, or possibly I'm deluding myself.

Trying to remember to find more time for doodling to music, and teaching myself to work something out.

I also feel that my love of the dance may actually be paralyzing me. I see so many possibilities, and I want to dance something with more connection to the music, but I don't yet know how.

 

[Creaky Old Dancer]

choreo or improv

Hi... Teela I love that structured improv. I tend to improv also I don't have any memory for choreo. I will listen to the music until it is almost a 'brain worm' - oh does anyone else sort of see music. it will sort of block out what shape of move is necessary... (does that make any sense). Some music is sort of straight line, some is sort of y-shaped a lot is circular or spiralled. Also the music is inward and outward. :think: and then my muscle memory just responds as well as the heart and soul (can I go more cliche than that)
Just recently I was dancing at an SCA event... and while I had my music the main dancer used i-pod music and there wasn't a cd player around so I used her music - cold - lucky for me it was rampi rampi. even with that there are so many arrangements of that - if I had a set choreo I would have been lost. (oh yeah I haven't danced before an audience in at least 12 years and everything went fine). Creaks

 

[maylynn]

Improv certainly comes in handy!
I've also found that since I've gone fully improv my memory for choreography has diminished. Out of practice I guess.